Communism vs Capitalism who killed more?

Cypress said:
The imperial Tsarist government no longer existed when Lenin showed up in Russia, having been overthrown in the February revolution.

Aka, there was no longer any Tsar for Lenin to revolt against when he rolled into Petrograd.

The provisional government of Russia was a coalition government of liberals and democratic socialists. Lenin was another garden variety socialist -- he had played no role in the overthrow of the Tsar, and and the provisional government had no reason initially to think Lenin was plotting the violent overthrow of the provisional government and establishment of a totalitarian government.

You are right about the Germans seeing it as a viable wartime tactic to ship Russian revolutionaries back home.
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My point was, and is, the government should have dealt with Lenin and his cronies the old fashioned way but didn't. Yes, the government was in disarray at the time and that's largely why the Communists succeeded.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
My point was, and is, the government should have dealt with Lenin and his cronies the old fashioned way but didn't. Yes, the government was in disarray at the time and that's largely why the Communists succeeded.
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Because Germany had weakened Tsarist Russia & German money mostly from Jews propped up the Bolsheviks.
 
RomanDmowski said:
https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_Famine_of_1945

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Indochina_Wars
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Yes, a famine brought on by a combination of French colonial government policy and by the Japanese takeover of the country in March 1945 and shipping everything to Japan for the war. The Japanese military occupation government didn't give a shit if the Vietnamese starved. It had nothing to do with Capitalism.
At the same time, the US was feeding information and even weapons to the Communist resistance to fight the Japanese. Ho Chi Min actually thought postwar that the US might support him versus the French and let Vietnam become independent. He even came to the US at that time hoping to convince the government to help. The Communist take over of China by the thug Mao, and then the Korean war started by Communists, pretty much ended any hope of that happening.

In the 20th Century, Communism was the single largest killer of people. War comes second. Hell, Hitler was a real amateur only killing something like 6 to 7 million in the Holocaust. Mao did ten times that in China alone.
 
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T. A. Gardner said:
Yes, a famine brought on by a combination of French colonial government policy and by the Japanese takeover of the country in March 1945 and shipping everything to Japan for the war. The Japanese military occupation government didn't give a shit if the Vietnamese starved. It had nothing to do with Capitalism.
At the same time, the US was feeding information and even weapons to the Communist resistance to fight the Japanese. Ho Chi Min actually thought postwar that the US might support him versus the French and let Vietnam become independent. He even came to the US at that time hoping to convince the government to help. The Communist take over of China by the thug Mao, and then the Korean war started by Communists, pretty much ended any hope of that happening.

In the 20th Century, Communism was the single largest killer of people. War comes second. Hell, Hitler was a real amateur only killing something like 6 to 7 million in the Holocaust. Mao did ten times that in China alone.
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So, the Holocaust was just 6 million?
That's all Hitler killed?

The Holocaust was about 10- 12 million & another 20 - 30 million were killed by Hitler in the Soviet Union.
 
The 2 biggest wars in the 20th century killed about 100 million.

Same with Communism.

70 - 85 million dead by WW2.

15 - 25 million dead by WW1.
 
3.3 million killed attributable to Stalin

Cypress said:
No one can agree on what the capitalist nations are, do they include Nazi Germany, the colonial Spanish empire, and Latin American dictatorships?

No one can agree on how many people were killed by Stalin. The 20 million Soviet citizens who were killed by Nazi Germany tend to get lumped in with Stalin because it happened on his watch. Stalin's great terror resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of perceived political opponents. Rightwing American media personalities have the impression the gulag was a system of mass genocide, when it was actually a system of forced labor. Stalin wanted slave labor, and mass genocide would not have served that purpose.
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After the USSR dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives was declassified and researchers were allowed to study it.

This contained official records of 799,455 executions (1921–1953),[7]

around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulag,[8][9]

some 390,000[10] deaths during the dekulakization forced resettlement,

and up to 400,000 deaths of persons deported during the 1940s[11]

– with a total of about 3.3 million officially recorded victims in these categories.[12]

Wikipedia
 
T. A. Gardner said:
My point was, and is, the government should have dealt with Lenin and his cronies the old fashioned way but didn't. Yes, the government was in disarray at the time and that's largely why the Communists succeeded.
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You have the benefit of hindsight and the benefit of history books which told you what happened.

In your prior post, you originally assumed the imperial Tsarist regime was still in power when Lenin showed up in Peteograd.

The tsar had already abdicated by the time Lenin showed up, and Lenin played no role in the February revolution which removed the tsar.

With the tsar out of the way, social democrats and socialists were running the provisional government while workers councils of Soviets were running local governments.

With the tsar gone, there was no obvious reason initially to assume Lenin was plotting the violent overthrow of the socialist-led provisional government, and to seize power in the soviets.

Though it should have been recognized that Lenin was a trouble maker, a radical, and this is probably what the Germans intuitively understood.
 
Cypress said:
You have the benefit of hindsight and the benefit of history books which told you what happened.

In your prior post, you originally assumed the imperial Tsarist regime was still in power when Lenin showed up in Peteograd.

The tsar had already abdicated by the time Lenin showed up, and Lenin played no role in the February revolution which removed the tsar.

With the tsar out of the way, social democrats and socialists were running the provisional government while workers councils of Soviets were running local governments.

With the tsar gone, there was no obvious reason to assume Lenin was plotting the violent overthrow of the socialist-led provisional government, and to seize power in the soviets.

Though it should have been recognized that Lenin was a trouble maker, a radical, and this is probably what the Germans intuitively understood.
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:okjen:
 
RomanDmowski said:
It's close but I think it's actually Capitalism.
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Apart from the Paris Commune, the first year (maybe) of the Russian Revolution, Bavaria and Hungary, there's only been capitalism since feudalism clocked in its clogs, surely? Killing is just one of its merry customs. Keeps us all in our proper places, see!
 
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