Confederate Statues

CFM said:
Did Byrd doing that change what those he recruited into the Klan did.
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So...OK...so you bring up Robert Byrd, ignorant of his renunciation of his past, and then completely abandon him the moment you realize how you've been talking out of your ass.

Robert Byrd renounced his racist past and supported Obama. So when are you going to renounce your racism? Robert Byrd is a better man than you ever will be, even though he was a Klan member.
 
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Oneuli said:
I'm aware of the sad legacy of segregated universities. I think the end of that policy was a positive thing, and should be celebrated. And that's the point of my suggestion: wouldn't it be better to celebrate something positive like that, rather than to celebrate traitors who murdered a bunch of American soldiers in the name of white supremacy?
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I don't disagree.

I take exception that you were making it sound like UNC as not accepting black students when in fact it was Jim Crow laws not the university.
 
CFM said:
Someone with a Liberal bias has proven they can't be educated. Look at all the black Liberals. The average IQ of blacks is 85 which means they can't learn on but a below average level.
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you are just an uneducated knuckle dragger.
 
Grumpy said:
I don't disagree.

I take exception that you were making it sound like UNC as not accepting black students when in fact it was Jim Crow laws not the university.
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I didn't mean to suggest that it was confined to UNC. It was an entire system of white supremacy throughout the south (and even extending beyond it). But the result was that even the most qualified black candidate couldn't get into UNC. @CFM had asked what was so great about blacks being admitted due to affirmative action, and so I was pointing out that what I was celebrating wasn't a decision to give blacks preferential admission, but rather a change that allowed them even to be considered for admission.
 
Grumpy said:
How many people see a statue every day versus how many people read a history book every day.
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OK, so it's not about the statue contributing anything historical, it's about feelings.

Well fuck your feelings, bruh. If you need a Confederate statue to make you feel better about yourself, then you should just kill yourself right now.
 
Grumpy said:
How many people see a statue every day versus how many people read a history book every day.
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What does the statue teach? What is the historical significance? Seems to me like you just want the statues because they make you feel better about yourself for sharing the same values as traitors and racists.
 
Oneuli said:
I certainly wouldn't accept that as an absolute moral principle. For example, I wouldn't condemn someone for hiding Anne Frank in his attic, even if it was against the law at the time.

As for the present question, I'm not condoning the vandalism. I think it's counter-productive. But I do think it's important to recognize it as a predictable outcome of denying local communities a practical legal way to remove offensive monuments. People who don't see a legal way forward to address an injustice will be tempted to go with an illegal way. What I'm further suggesting is a way that the offensive monuments can be dealt with without violating any law.
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I think the difficulty is that what’s offensive to some people isn’t offensive to others. How do you go about determining which side gets their way based on a subjective opinion? If it’s citizens of that city debating it then a possible vote would help solve it but just because someone finds something offensive doesn’t mean that it should be removed in my personal opinion. If the people who are offended lose the fight fairly then at some point they should accept it or try again as time goes by. Vandalism isn’t really the answer though. Many of those same people wouldn’t like something they approve of being torn down because they lost a legal fight. Personally a lot of this would be solved if the monuments were just on privately owned property.
 
Oneuli said:
I didn't mean to suggest that it was confined to UNC. It was an entire system of white supremacy throughout the south (and even extending beyond it). But the result was that even the most qualified black candidate couldn't get into UNC. @CFM had asked what was so great about blacks being admitted due to affirmative action, and so I was pointing out that what I was celebrating wasn't a decision to give blacks preferential admission, but rather a change that allowed them even to be considered for admission.
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"In 1961, President John Kennedy issued executive order 10925, which created the Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity and mandated that federally funded projects take "affirmative action" to insure that hiring and employment practices were free of racial bias."

In the beginning affirmative action was a good law. But then like all good laws it was bastardized and became a quota system. Thankfully we have matured and no longer need to treat one segment of society differently.
 
LV426 said:
OK, so it's not about the statue contributing anything historical, it's about feelings.

Well fuck your feelings, bruh. If you need a Confederate statue to make you feel better about yourself, then you should just kill yourself right now.
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No! It's about reminding people of the past. What do you think all those statues and memorials in the nations capitol are for? It' about remembering the good and the bad.


Poor little pussy's feeling get hurt because those big bad statues won't let him forget the inhumanity of the past. Do yourself and us a favor FOAD.


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LV426 said:
What does the statue teach? What is the historical significance? Seems to me like you just want the statues because they make you feel better about yourself for sharing the same values as traitors and racists.
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If you can't figure that out no amount of teaching will penetrate your thick skull.
 
Grumpy said:
What do you think all those statues and memorials in the nations capitol are for? It' about remembering the good and the bad.
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How so?

And what do Confederates have to do with Americans? They're not Americans. They renounced America. Then they lost.

I don't need a statue to remind me of that, and neither do you.
 
Grumpy said:
If you can't figure that out no amount of teaching will penetrate your thick skull.
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Seems like you can't figure it out.

It also seems like you can't remember anything unless there's a bronze statue of it.

Memory loss is usually a sign of mental illness.
 
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