Could I have a list of the "Black Jobs" so I don't waste my time applying for the wrong ones?

cawacko said:
This whole debate over immigrants lowering wages isn't new. 100 years ago people made the same argument (and the immigrants were white). Unions have made this argument in the past as have civil rights leader during their era.

What is interesting is seeing the white collar people poo poo it while arguing that programs like H1-B visas bring immigrants here who companies pay less and take their jobs.
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Absolutely true. Mr. Owl worked for a large national insurance company's IT department for most of his working life. (He is a software engineer/systems architect.) He and most of his IT coworkers were laid off in 2013 when the company was bought out by another large insurer. In their place they installed H1B visa workers from India, most of them still IN India with its infamous shitty infrastructure including electrical grid and spotty Internet connection. It was a disaster. They ended up having to find new American IT specialist because all the laid-off people had already found better-paying jobs elsewhere, including Mr. Owl. They gave them a generous severance package if they signed an agreement not to squeal to the government or sue them. He got enough to pay off our house, take a month off with pay, and then walked into a far better position.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Absolutely true. Mr. Owl worked for a large national insurance company's IT department for most of his working life. (He is a software engineer/systems architect.) He and most of his IT coworkers were laid off in 2013 when the company was bought out by another large insurer. In their place they installed H1B visa workers from India, most of them still IN India with its infamous shitty infrastructure including electrical grid and spotty Internet connection. It was a disaster. They ended up having to find new American IT specialist because all the laid-off people had already found better-paying jobs elsewhere, including Mr. Owl. They gave them a generous severance package if they signed an agreement not to squeal to the government or sue them. He got enough to pay off our house, take a month off with pay, and then walked into a far better position.
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Having first hand experience (and leaving your husband out of it so as to not make it personal about him) would you say (generally speaking) those who complain about H1B Visa workers should pretty much not do so?

(and since tone can be tough here that's not intended as a leading or gotcha question, rather just curious how you view it)
 
cawacko said:
Having first hand experience (and leaving your husband out of it so as to not make it personal about him) would you say (generally speaking) those who complain about H1B Visa workers should pretty much not do so?

(and since tone can be tough here that's not intended as a leading or gotcha question, rather just curious how you view it)
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I think that the H1B visa program is being abused by American corporations. I'm sure that there are industries where finding skilled, experienced, educated workers is difficult. However, there does not seem to be much in the way of oversight over the program, at least in our experience. Like with undocumented workers, employers are exploiting the system in order to pay much lower wages and increase their own profits at the expense of American workers.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I think that the H1B visa program is being abused by American corporations. I'm sure that there are industries where finding skilled, experienced, educated workers is difficult. However, there does not seem to be much in the way of oversight over the program, at least in our experience. Like with undocumented workers, employers are exploiting the system in order to pay much lower wages and increase their own profits at the expense of American workers.
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Are working class people not wrong then when they say/complain that undocumented workers help to drive down their wages? It's simply a matter of where do they direct their anger/dislike; at the workers, the employers or the gov't? (or a combination)
 
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cawacko said:
Are working class people not wrong then when they say/complain that undocumented workers help to drive down their wages? It's simply a matter of where do they direct their anger/dislike; at the workers, the employers or the gov't? (or a combination)
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I can't see how hiring undocumented workers drives down wages. They take jobs that go begging to be filled because legal citizens who are protected by minimum wage law can find easier employment elsewhere. Can you tell me how employing them makes things worse for legal citizens? It sounds more to me like another RW made-up grievance fed to the worker bees in their base.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I can't see how hiring undocumented workers drives down wages. They take jobs that go begging to be filled because legal citizens who are protected by minimum wage law can find easier employment elsewhere. Can you tell me how employing them makes things worse for legal citizens? It sounds more to me like another RW made-up grievance fed to the worker bees in their base.
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I'm all for more immigration so I'm not making this argument. But this argument, that (illegal) immigrants drive down wages, has been around for 100 years. It is not new. Unions used to make this exact argument (this was when they were in their heyday, today they have switched their tone because they need any workers they can get - documented or undocumented).

If two people are competing for the same job and the undocumented person is willing to work for less, than yes it can hurt the American worker. But undocumented people and American workers tend not to compete for most of the same roles.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I can't see how hiring undocumented workers drives down wages. They take jobs that go begging to be filled because legal citizens who are protected by minimum wage law can find easier employment elsewhere. Can you tell me how employing them makes things worse for legal citizens? It sounds more to me like another RW made-up grievance fed to the worker bees in their base.
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I can't believe how long I have been on this board but this was a post from 2006 (not by me, I was referenced in it). The topic was China-U.S. trade has cost America 2.3m jobs according to a report. Here's the post:

""You think this was an accident, or somehow all unintentional?

This was exactly what the wall street republicans, and corporate-sponsored Dems had in mind when the passed NAFTA, WTO, and China MFN.

A downward pressure on labor costs and wages in the United States.

People like Cawacko, Damocles, and Stuperfreak actually bought into the nonsense that William F Buckley, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and Alan Greenspan were actually valiantly trying to improve the status, power, and wage potential of america's working middle class. Is it possible to be any more foolish that to believe scions of the conservative movement and america's rich investor were invested in improving the power and status of Joe and Jane working class american?""


I freely admit I am very pro-immigration and I am very free trade. (Free trade raises the standard of living in this country but there's also no denying it can and does hurt individual communities and people) But this post was in 2006. You notice no liberal economist was referenced as supporting free today? Think that would be the same today?

Today, Trump is basically co-opting Democratic language with his anti-free trade (and illegal immigration) rhetoric and actions. It was one of the reasons I've never voted for him. But you think someone would make the same post I quoted above today? No way. Because that would sound Trump-esque.
 
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