Could there ever be a worse take than this one?

[LV426]

Because my point (which I stated clearly in the post) was that conservatives favored state action on gay marriage and they used states to define marriage as they favored.

They defined marriage by regulating it so that gay people couldn't get married.

You said Conservatives would never do that, but here you say they did.

So you were wrong.

Those conservatives had the same view as Obama and Hillary. In 2008 Obama opposed gay marriage as "a Christian."

Yeah, but Obama changed his position while Conservatives didn't and haven't.

I guess opposition to gay marriage was a liberal policy since the two leading liberal politicians opposed it.

They don't oppose it anymore, do they?

But Conservatives do.

So...?

 

[LV426]

Because my point (which I stated clearly in the post) was that conservatives favored state action on gay marriage and they used states to define marriage as they favored

Which directly contradicts this:

Conservatives would not favor more government regulation just because they don't like something.

 

[Flash]

These weren't laws regulating marriage, they were laws banning gay marriage. And they banned gay marriage with these laws because they didn't like gay marriage.

So what you said here was inaccurate, wasn't it:

Nope. That is a lack of understanding on your part. Some simply defined marriage as between male and female the way states and other nations had done so historically. That, in effect, banned same sex marriage (in most cases) but the laws did not all mention a prohibition against gay marriage.

They took the same liberal position as Obama and Hillary by excluding gays from the definition of marriage.

 

[LV426]

Nope. That is a lack of understanding on your part. Some simply defined marriage as between male and female the way states and other nations had done so historically.

So you're saying that they passed regulations to ban gay marriage because they didn't like it. We're saying the same thing, Flash.

That, in effect, banned same sex marriage (in most cases) but the laws did not all mention a prohibition against gay marriage.

But some of them did, and by banning same sex marriage, that also is a prohibition against gay marriage.

So you're really playing a semantic game right now after stepping in shit with your original broad and inaccurate statement.

Details matter, and we both know how much you loathe the details because it means doing work that you're too lazy to do, or it's work someone else did for you.

They took the same liberal position as Obama and Hillary by excluding gays from the definition of marriage.

But Obama and Clinton changed their positions, while Conservatives have not.

 

[LV426]

That, in effect, banned same sex marriage (in most cases) but the laws did not all mention a prohibition against gay marriage.

Did not "all"? But that means some of them did. And you're saying the same thing with this sentence. So when you said this:

Conservatives would not favor more government regulation just because they don't like something.

You were inaccurate and bullshitting everyone, weren't you?

 

[Flash]

They defined marriage by regulating it so that gay people couldn't get married.

You said Conservatives would never do that, but here you say they did.

So you were wrong.

They just continued to define marriage the same way it had been defined for centuries. It was others who were trying to change that tradition. They didn't regulate anything any differently than it had been. Because somebody wants to change that does not mean they must go along.

Obama and Clinton did not change until they were running for president--convenient pandering.

 

[Flash]

Which directly contradicts this:

You confuse conservative ideology with Republicans/politicians who may label themselves conservative. Everything Republicans do is not conservative--Trump is proof of that. Tariffs, increased spending and debt, stimulus spending...

 

[LV426]

You confuse conservative ideology with Republicans/politicians who may label themselves conservative. Everything Republicans do is not conservative--Trump is proof of that. Tariffs, increased spending and debt, stimulus spending...

NO TRUE SCOTSMAN.

 

[LV426]

They just continued to define marriage the same way it had been defined for centuries.

There was gay marriage before there was Christianity.

It was others who were trying to change that tradition.

Yeah, Christians. The historical record of gay marriage predates Christianity by about 5,000 years, at least.

n. They didn't regulate anything any differently than it had been.

Yes, they clearly did.

Because somebody wants to change that does not mean they must go along.

Christians changed that, Flash, not gay people.

Obama and Clinton did not change until they were running for president--convenient pandering.

Obama changed after he was already elected President.

 

[Flash]

NO TRUE SCOTSMAN.

No Scotsman at all. If Biden decided he wanted a constitutional amendment against abortion and gay marriage and I complained that is not a liberal position you would argue:
1. No true Scotsman
2. It is a liberal position because Biden is a liberal

 

[Flash]

There was gay marriage before there was Christianity.

The pros and cons of gay marriage are irrelevant to the original topic of ideology. You claimed if a conservative favored a certain policy that makes it conservative. My point is that is contrary to any concept of political ideology.

When Obama and Hillary opposed gay marriage was that a liberal or conservative position? Your definition is that it is liberal because they are liberals regardless of liberal doctrine.

That makes Obama and Hillary conservative on that topic. How they classify themselves does not constitute ideological principles.

Obama changed after he was already elected President.

When he was in the state senate, U. S. Senate, or running for president? His position changed. Did that make him liberal or conservative?

 

[LV426]

No Scotsman at all.

You've been arguing that the people who passed the Conservative agenda, who told you that they were doing this, aren't in fact true Conservatives.

"True Conservatives" is a moving goalpost. It is NO TRUE SCOTSMAN.

Trump's record is crystal clear...Conservatism. That's what his GOP friends all voted for. It's what they got him elected to do.

Are tax cuts for the rich not Conservative? Is shoveling billions of dollars to military spending not Conservative? How about building the wall? How about the hundreds of Conservative judges?

Your standards for what "Conservatism" is change by the minute as you debate.

If Biden decided he wanted a constitutional amendment against abortion and gay marriage and I complained that is not a liberal position you would argue:

So your habit is to always fall back on hypotheticals because you don't want to reconcile the reality before you.

That's bad faith, Flash.

 

[Damocles]

Flash has apparently never heard of abortion before.

Or gay marriage.

Or immigration.

Or Flash believes that those who support that kind of nonsense are religious extremists and not conservatives.

 

[LV426]

The pros and cons of gay marriage are irrelevant to the original topic of ideology.

Flash, this isn't a pro or con to gay marriage, it is a fact that it predates Christianity.

So TRADITIONALLY, gay people have been able to get married.

That TRADITION predates any new traditions you're trying to argue.

You claimed if a conservative favored a certain policy that makes it conservative.

Yeah, believe people when they tell you who they are the first time.

My point is that is contrary to any concept of political ideology.

No, it isn't at all.

When Obama and Hillary opposed gay marriage was that a liberal or conservative position?

A Conservative one. Because who still opposes it? Conservatives.

Your definition is that it is liberal because they are liberals regardless of liberal doctrine.

No, that is you exercising sophistry in a very lazy way because you don't want to make any distinctions or differences.

Obama and Clinton have both since reversed their position on that.

But Conservatives haven't.

Why?

When he was in the state senate, U. S. Senate, or running for president? His position changed. Did that make him liberal or conservative?

What are you trying to say here? Use your words, because this is incoherent babble.

 

[Flash]

You've been arguing that the people who passed the Conservative agenda, who told you that they were doing this, aren't in fact true Conservatives.

"True Conservatives" is a moving goalpost. It is NO TRUE SCOTSMAN.

Trump's record is crystal clear...Conservatism. That's what his GOP friends all voted for. It's what they got him elected to do.

Your standards for what "Conservatism" is change by the minute as you debate.

Liberalism and conservatism are principles, not people claiming they are a "true" this or that.

A "conservative" agenda does not mean it contains conservative policies. It is to attract votes.

Very little conservative about Donald Trump---the reason both liberal and conservative publications and analysts called him a populist. Nothing conservative about tariffs, increased spending, deficits, and debt, government regulations on prices, increased government power using emergency powers and executive orders...

It is not the person that is the true conservative, it is the policy.

You don't like hypotheticals because you know you can't make them fit your explanations of what is liberal and conservative. You said if conservatives pushed policies that made them conservative.

Yet, you fail to answer whether Obama and Hillary were conservative when they opposed gay marriage. Then, did they become "true" liberals when they reversed their position?

 

[LV426]

Or Flash believes that those who support that kind of nonsense are religious extremists and not conservatives.

 

[LV426]

Or Flash believes that those who support that kind of nonsense are religious extremists and not conservatives.

Well, if he says that then he's acting in bad faith.

 

[LV426]

Liberalism and conservatism are principles, not people claiming they are a "true" this or that.

Flash, what annoys me about you more than anything is that you shit forth bullshit opinions, that you spent no time developing, as if they were objective fact.

Yes, both of those are very much a set of principles just as much as they are ideologies.

A "conservative" agenda does not mean it contains conservative policies. It is to attract votes.

Yes, it very much does. Abortion, gay marriage, immigration, VOTING...these are all issues for which Conservatives have put forth and/or enacted actual Conservative policies to restrict because they don't like them.

What you're arguing Flash, is that no one has any beliefs or policies...everything is imaginary.

And you argue that because it's the laziest thing for you to do. It requires the least amount of effort and work.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

NONE of which are in the Constitution. Conservatives aren't the one's trying to regulate behavior dumbass; that would be whiny, low IQ leftist liars like you.

Pizza and baseball aren't in the Constitution either.

 

[Jerome]

Flash has apparently never heard of abortion before.

Or gay marriage.

Or immigration.

Or people voting.

Or the ACA.