Now I know for sure you're either insane or a Putin employee.
Could Zelensky and Putin start World War III?
Now I know for sure you're either insane or a Putin employee.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Thanks for the info which I will assume is at least somewhat valid.First of all, I'd like to see if we can agree on what actions the United States and NATO engaged in prior to Russia's military operation began. I've gone over this before and you may be familiar with the gist of it, so I'll just present some articles to back up my main points.
1- The United States helped organize a coup against the elected President of Ukraine back in 2014, Viktor Yanukovych, which resulted in him fleeing for his life to Russia. Source:
Timeline: Euromaidan, the original “Ukraine Crisis”
As Russia actually do launch an invasion or “special operation” in Ukraine, we thought now was a good time to recap on how we got here. The historical, political and ethnic divisions in…off-guardian.org
2- Following the coup, politicians on the far right and even neo Nazis in Ukraine took control. Their influence led to such things such as the almost immediate vote to remove Russian as an official language used in government buildings and schools in eastern Ukraine. While initially blocked by a holdout from Yanukovych's government, it was later implemented.
3- The events that took place in points 1 and 2 led to Crimeans holding a referendum to rejoin Russia, which won overwhelmingly. Russia accepted Crimeans' request and allowed Crimea to rejoin Russia. The Donbass regions of Donetsk and Luhansk started protests and takeovers of government buildings, similar to what happened during Euromaidan, but in this case, in support of more independence from Ukraine, seeing as Ukraine's new goverment had become decidedly anti-Russian, including the Russian language, which many eastern Ukrainians use as their primary language.
4- A civil war ensued, wherein thousands of eastern Ukrainians were killed. Zelensky is voted in as the new Ukrainian President on the promise of working out a peace deal with the rebels and Russia, who was not pleased at this slaughter of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians. Unfortunately, the far right, in conjunction with U.S. warhawks, provide no support for a peace deal and Zelensky changes tack. A good article on this:
Siding With Ukraine’s Far-Right, US Sabotaged Zelensky’s Peace Mandate
In 2019, Zelensky was elected on an overwhelming mandate to make peace with Russia. As Stephen F. Cohen warned that year, the US chose to side with Ukraine’s far-right and fuel war.scheerpost.com
5- Literally days before Russia's military operation in Ukraine began, Ukraine begins bombarding the eastern Ukrainian rebels in the Donbass region. Even before this starts, Russia's parliament asks Putin to recognize the Donbass Republics, probably hoping to protect them from this attack. While Putin initially refuses, he finally agrees to Parliament's request and recognizes the Donbass Republics on February 21, 2022. The bombardments continue, however, and so on February 24, 2022, Putin decides to start his special military operation in Ukraine. To date, the best and pretty much only written description that I have seen of these tumultuous days prior to Russia's military operation is from former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud, in an article he published shortly after Russia's military operation in Ukraine began. It can be seen here:
Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative
Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.
My absolute favourite part of this article when it comes to presenting evidence of how Russia was provoked is quoted below:
**
In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers from the Donbass being run over.
If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “ Responsibility To Protect ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21.
That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them.
The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance.
In order to make the Russian intervention totally illegal in the eyes of the public we deliberately obscure the fact that the war actually started on February 16th. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as certain Russian and European intelligence services were well aware… The lawyers will judge.
**
Things things are not about right and wrong, unfortunately.
They're about us and them.
Western Europe favors Zelensky.
Western Europe is part of "us."
Putin and Trump, if you share my values, are without question "them."
End of story for me.
Others may see it differently.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
No.It appears that Trump has already made deals with Zelensky and Putin. Yet, reports show that Russia and Ukraine are still attacking energy facilities. Some media sources claim that Ukraine is not honoring the agreements made in the UAE. But what do you think? Can we stop the conflict from escalating further, or are we on the verge of World War III? Let us know your thoughts!
I see. I will say that I disagree with Trump on -many- things. I think he's as bad or worse than Biden when it comes to his support of Israel, for instance. Also not a fan of his policies on immigration. But when it comes to Ukraine, I definitely think he's done better than Biden. You say that western Europe favors Zelensky, but I think it's important to note that it's really more certain European elites who favour him and by extension are also against Russia. Many politicians on the right -do- favour trying to repair the west's relationship with Russia. Unfortunately, many of these politicians are now literally getting banned from the political scene:
Le Pen and the Guillotine of Democracy
Marine Le Pen has been banned from running in the French presidential election in 2027.
www.eurosiberia.net
She's not the only one either. A lot of corrupt stuff going on in Moldova in the last few years:
Leaked recordings expose shocking state corruption in ‘US governed’ Moldova - The Grayzone
The Grayzone has obtained video recordings of well-connected figures within Moldova’s political and business community openly testifying to rank corruption within the country’s government and economy, while outlining schemes to enrich Western investors for an appropriate fee. The invasion of...
thegrayzone.com
The West’s Romance With Elections Is Dead—the Rules-Based Order Killed It
As western populations grow sick and tired of their political class and vote against it, what are elites to do?
scheerpost.com
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
You don't agree with supporting Israel,I see. I will say that I disagree with Trump on -many- things. I think he's as bad or worse than Biden when it comes to his support of Israel, for instance. Also not a fan of his policies on immigration. But when it comes to Ukraine, I definitely think he's done better than Biden. You say that western Europe favors Zelensky, but I think it's important to note that it's really more certain European elites who favour him and by extension are also against Russia. Many politicians on the right -do- favour trying to repair the west's relationship with Russia. Unfortunately, many of these politicians are now literally getting banned from the political scene:
Le Pen and the Guillotine of Democracy
Marine Le Pen has been banned from running in the French presidential election in 2027.
She's not the only one either. A lot of corrupt stuff going on in Moldova in the last few years:
Leaked recordings expose shocking state corruption in ‘US governed’ Moldova - The Grayzone
The Grayzone has obtained video recordings of well-connected figures within Moldova’s political and business community openly testifying to rank corruption within the country’s government and economy, while outlining schemes to enrich Western investors for an appropriate fee. The invasion of...
The West’s Romance With Elections Is Dead—the Rules-Based Order Killed It
As western populations grow sick and tired of their political class and vote against it, what are elites to do?
but every time I see that ugly-ass "Freedom Tower"
where the majestic World Trade Center Twin Towers once stood,
I am reminded of my own seething hatred for Middle Eastern Jihadists, regardless of their Muslim denomination.
The disgraceful October 7 attack on Israel precluded any possibility
that I'd have any empathy / sympathy for any Palestinian, either complicit or innocent.
Another "us and them" situation from my perspective.
Only a war of genocide will settle the Israel-Palestine difficulties,
and that 's been obvious since the era of the PLO.
They simply can't and won't co-exist.
Nobody loathes the pigfucking orangutan more than I do--NOBODY--
but even from here on the left, like Guno, I fully support Israel,
even if the current Israeli administration looks sketchy.
It's the people of Israel that I support.
After how 9 11 01 fucked up our nation is so many ways, now appearing permanent,
I can't bring myself to care about any radical Islamist people who clearly hate us,
and that certainly includes Palestinians.
You don't agree with supporting Israel,I see. I will say that I disagree with Trump on -many- things. I think he's as bad or worse than Biden when it comes to his support of Israel, for instance. Also not a fan of his policies on immigration. But when it comes to Ukraine, I definitely think he's done better than Biden. You say that western Europe favors Zelensky, but I think it's important to note that it's really more certain European elites who favour him and by extension are also against Russia. Many politicians on the right -do- favour trying to repair the west's relationship with Russia. Unfortunately, many of these politicians are now literally getting banned from the political scene:
Le Pen and the Guillotine of Democracy
Marine Le Pen has been banned from running in the French presidential election in 2027.
She's not the only one either. A lot of corrupt stuff going on in Moldova in the last few years:
Leaked recordings expose shocking state corruption in ‘US governed’ Moldova - The Grayzone
The Grayzone has obtained video recordings of well-connected figures within Moldova’s political and business community openly testifying to rank corruption within the country’s government and economy, while outlining schemes to enrich Western investors for an appropriate fee. The invasion of...
The West’s Romance With Elections Is Dead—the Rules-Based Order Killed It
As western populations grow sick and tired of their political class and vote against it, what are elites to do?
but every time I see that ugly-ass "Freedom Tower"
where the majestic World Trade Center Twin Towers once stood,
I am reminded of my own seething hatred for Middle Eastern Jihadists, regardless of their Muslim denomination.
I think it's clear that we don't agree on who was actually responsible for 9/11. I studied that event for years and came to the conclusion that while I do believe that Saudis were involved to some extent, Osama bin Laden was not. I also believe that Israel itself was involved, particularly when it came to the Twin Towers you mention, as well as certain government officials within the U.S. government itself. This isn't the thread for this, but if you'd like to debate who was actually involved in the 9/11 event, we could certainly do so elsewhere.