Democrats failing to pass anti-war bill

[Cancel7]

Reid is starting to sound very unsure of what they can do:

“A majority of the House and a majority of the Senate want to change the direction of the war in Iraq,” Mr. Reid said in a meeting with reporters beforehand. “We have voted accordingly on more than one occasion, in fact on many occasions. But the House having done their job, they come to the Senate and the Senate Republicans, the vast majority of them will not allow us to change the direction of the war in Iraq.”

Later in the article:

"But Democrats seemed resigned to having little chance of influencing the war strategy anytime soon."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/washington/20cnd-cong.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

I won't quote the part where it says Republicans are celebrating because it sickens me as much as watching those Palestinians dance in the street after 9/11.

The Dem's gotta grow some backbone and demand an end to this, and the only thing they can do, unfortunatly, is cut off funding, or wait longer.

Here is what you and Warren want me to do.

You want me to acquiesce to the destruction of the Democratic party, and to one party rule under the Republicans for the next decade or so. In that time, we will watch as the social safety net is cut more and more, fewer children have health care, and the 18,000 Americans whom die every year, you step and look at that figure, 18,000 Americans who die every year due to lack of health care continues unabated. We will watch as the complete ignoring of science telling us we are approaching a human disaster of biblical proportions, if nothing is done about climate change, continues, and very likely in YOUR lifetime, you will die or become a refugee thanks to that.

You want me to do that, and so much more, in order to save a couple of thousand lives of men who voluntarily joined the military, and 90% or more of whom happily voted for the fool who sent them to die.

And, you want me to do all of that, all the while knowing (meaning, I know) that bush aint' bringing them home anyway.

Well, I'm sorry, but no. I am not going to do that.

This war won't end until George W bush is gone, and if the American people rise up and demand, demand, demand, he be impeached as he should be, well it will end then.

 

[Cypress]

You think that fewer troops would die by staying in Iraq another 6 months to a year than cutting funding?

You're assuming Bush does the will of congress. He doesn't. Ever heard of his signing statements? He thinks he's an imperial ruler. Doesn't matter what congress does. They cut funding, and he leaves troops there to die. Its as simple as that, IMO. Of course he will be clever and sneaky about it. But the end result, is US troops in iraq short on funding, and short on bullets. The GOP runs TV ads claiming the Dems let the troops run out of bullets, and (possibly) a public backlash elects a GOP president. Then we stay in iraq, and possibly attack Iran.

 

[Cancel7]

Probably six months. There is a natural bottleneck in the south. It depends on whether Saudi Arabia would let them leave through the Western border, if they all had to leave through the south it would take about six months.

All the time they were doing it there would be a pounding in the media about how the Ds forced retreat, gave al Qaeda the victory, and more. The worst will be how they "left them without bullets in a war zone". Bin Laden's new tape would come out crowing about their victory in Iraq and how the "holy" victory in Iraq was his thing... on and on it would go.

I don't think it would give the Ds much of a victory, true. However, if you believe our presence there is immoral there is only one real vote to make. Any other vote continues what you believe to be an immoral action.

Really, well military experts have said it would take one year, start to finish. That puts us at the end of 2008.

The question is, what do YOU believe? Do you believe this war is immoral? because there is another way to end it though you don't want people to know about it.

Agitate for Impeachment. Flood your representatives with letters. If the American people demand impeachment, that's when this war ends.

Have you called asking for impeachment Damo?

Or are you just sitting back, smirking, and instead of agititating for the end of the war you claim to have been against, agitating for permanent rule under your party?

 

[Epicurus]

If you will just agree that your party is not doing all that it could to end the war as soon as possible I would be satisfied.

But you see our point. Considering the amount of time Democrats have spent discussing the failure of Iraq, it is rather dishonest and typically political of them not to do all in their power to end it.

 

[DigitalDave]

Here is what you and Warren want me to do.

You want me to acquiesce to the destruction of the Democratic party, and to one party rule under the Republicans for the next decade or so. In that time, we will watch as the social safety net is cut more and more, fewer children have health care, and the 18,000 Americans whom die every year, you step and look at that figure, 18,000 Americans who die every year due to lack of health care continues unabated. We will watch as the complete ignoring of science telling us we are approaching a human disaster of biblical proportions, if nothing is done about climate change, continues, and very likely in YOUR lifetime, you will die or become a refugee thanks to that.

You want me to do that, and so much more, in order to save a couple of thousand lives of men who voluntarily joined the military, and 90% or more of whom happily voted for the fool who sent them to die.

And, you want me to do all of that, all the while knowing (meaning, I know) that bush aint' bringing them home anyway.

Well, I'm sorry, but no. I am not going to do that.

This war won't end until George W bush is gone, and if the American people rise up and demand, demand, demand, he be impeached as he should be, well it will end then.

Wow, Dems are really sounding worried about taking a stand. Bush is very effective at getting what he wants then. You think the guy is absolutely lunatic and we all become scared to take a stand against him....cause if we do, the sky will begin falling.

 

[DigitalDave]

Really, well military experts have said it would take one year, start to finish. That puts us at the end of 2008.

The question is, what do YOU believe? Do you believe this war is immoral? because there is another way to end it though you don't want people to know about it.

Agitate for Impeachment. Flood your representatives with letters. If the American people demand impeachment, that's when this war ends.

Have you called asking for impeachment Damo?

Or are you just sitting back, smirking, and instead of agititating for the end of the war you claim to have been against, agitating for permanent rule under your party?

We impeach, and guess who takes charge?

 

[Cypress]

If you will just agree that your party is not doing all that it could to end the war as soon as possible I would be satisfied.

But you see our point. Considering the amount of time Democrats have spent discussing the failure of Iraq, it is rather dishonest and typically political of them not to do all in their power to end it.

There's no doubt, that for too long, too many democrats have been spineless about challenging bush.

But, I'm also not accepting any either/or propositions: Either you cut off funding, or you're just as bad as bush and take ownership of this war.

Why do you think republican pundits and posters are so giddy for the democrats to cut off funding? The public doesn't want it, according to polls. The public wants a withdrawl timeline. Not funding getting cut off. Republicans want dems to cut funding, so they can leave troops in iraq to die. And blame the Dems.

 

[Bonestorm]

If you will just agree that your party is not doing all that it could to end the war as soon as possible I would be satisfied.

But you see our point. Considering the amount of time Democrats have spent discussing the failure of Iraq, it is rather dishonest and typically political of them not to do all in their power to end it.

They did that once and Bush vetoed it. The only option they have is refusing to pass any spending bills on Iraq. They have concluded that doing that, while it would presumably end the war, is irresponsible. So, they are trying alternatives. To that extent, I agree that they are not doing everything in their power to end the war, but they are doing everything in their power to responsibly end the war.

The bottom line is that there are too few Republicans willing to go on board with any of the responsible bills that would begin to end the war. As a result, nothing happens.

 

[Damocles]

Really, well military experts have said it would take one year, start to finish. That puts us at the end of 2008.

The question is, what do YOU believe? Do you believe this war is immoral? because there is another way to end it though you don't want people to know about it.

Agitate for Impeachment. Flood your representatives with letters. If the American people demand impeachment, that's when this war ends.

Have you called asking for impeachment Damo?

Or are you just sitting back, smirking, and instead of agititating for the end of the war you claim to have been against, agitating for permanent rule under your party?

I believe that leaving early without ensuring something to take the place of the power vacuum would be even more immoral than continuing to occupy Iraq. I hate that we ever went there, would not have voted for this War Powers Act "action" and wish we never went, but that doesn't change that we have some responsibility toward the people there.

I believe that Bush should be talking to NATO and the UN and begging for help as we leave to give these poor people a shot at a life not filled with big guys with guns running the show. Otherwise what we leave is worse even than what we caused.

I believe that it will also give another 'victory' to a group who bases the level of 'holiness' on victory in battle based on statements from them in the past. (For example when bin Laden associates Reagan's withdrawal from Lebanon and Clinton's from Rwanda as 'victories' and thus showing how much holier they are because God makes them win.) I think that this mistake is huge in all ways, that more terrorists will be created regardless of what we do, but we must ensure some security for the chaos we have caused through idiotic war strategies and "actions" based on the War Powers Act rather than declarations.

We are truly between a rock and hard place. And I will not again vote for any person that would perpetuate the use of that inane "Act" that negates constitutional protections that were instituted to keep us from such debacles.

 

[Onceler]

If you will just agree that your party is not doing all that it could to end the war as soon as possible I would be satisfied.

But you see our point. Considering the amount of time Democrats have spent discussing the failure of Iraq, it is rather dishonest and typically political of them not to do all in their power to end it.

They should do everything in their power to end it in a RESPONSIBLE way, that causes the least amount of suffering possible.

You still haven't really explained how an immediate withdrawal, mandated by a cut-off of funding, would accomplish that.

 

[Epicurus]

[/B]

Really?...Please post a link with real stats showing this!...Like I said Congress/Senate responds to the wishes of the electorate...they do receive e-mails daily!

I just want to point out that he never responded or acknowledged the accuracy of my claim despite my posting 2 different sources.

 

[Cancel7]

I believe that leaving early without ensuring something to take the place of the power vacuum would be even more immoral than continuing to occupy Iraq. I hate that we ever went there, would not have voted for this War Powers Act "action" and wish we never went, but that doesn't change that we have some responsibility toward the people there.

I believe that Bush should be talking to NATO and the UN and begging for help as we leave to give these poor people a shot at a life not filled with big guys with guns running the show. Otherwise what we leave is worse even than what we caused.

I believe that it will also give another 'victory' to a group who bases the level of 'holiness' on victory in battle based on statements from them in the past. (For example when bin Laden associates Reagan's withdrawal from Lebanon and Clinton's from Rwanda as 'victories' and thus showing how much holier they are because God makes them win.) I think that this mistake is huge in all ways, that more terrorists will be created regardless of what we do, but we must ensure some security for the chaos we have caused through idiotic war strategies and "actions" based on the War Powers Act rather than declarations.

We are truly between a rock and hard place. And I will not again vote for any person that would perpetuate the use of that inane "Act" that negates constitutional protections that were instituted to keep us from such debacles.

Well, a lot of people believe your first sentence Damo, believe it or not, even some democrats who were against the initial invasion.

 

[Cancel7]

I just want to point out that he never responded or acknowledged the accuracy of my claim despite my posting 2 different sources.

Who BB? Oh for God sakes, post a picture of a Heiniken, then you'll get a response. Otherwise....forget it.

 

[Cancel7]

We impeach, and guess who takes charge?

That's true, they would both need to be impeached, in fact there is a movement called "Impeach Cheney first".

 

[Battleborne]

Excuse me....

I just want to point out that he never responded or acknowledged the accuracy of my claim despite my posting 2 different sources.

You posted a straw poll...I asked for links of a real value that showed the 'majority'(as you claim) of Amercans were against the war...I stated that politicians receive daily e-mails from the electorate which dictates the real support for or against any bill et al!

 

[Cypress]

I believe that leaving early without ensuring something to take the place of the power vacuum would be even more immoral than continuing to occupy Iraq. I hate that we ever went there, would not have voted for this War Powers Act "action" and wish we never went, but that doesn't change that we have some responsibility toward the people there.

I believe that Bush should be talking to NATO and the UN and begging for help as we leave to give these poor people a shot at a life not filled with big guys with guns running the show. Otherwise what we leave is worse even than what we caused.

I believe that it will also give another 'victory' to a group who bases the level of 'holiness' on victory in battle based on statements from them in the past. (For example when bin Laden associates Reagan's withdrawal from Lebanon and Clinton's from Rwanda as 'victories' and thus showing how much holier they are because God makes them win.) I think that this mistake is huge in all ways, that more terrorists will be created regardless of what we do, but we must ensure some security for the chaos we have caused through idiotic war strategies and "actions" based on the War Powers Act rather than declarations.

We are truly between a rock and hard place. And I will not again vote for any person that would perpetuate the use of that inane "Act" that negates constitutional protections that were instituted to keep us from such debacles.

We're not fighting the people who attacked us on 9/11, in iraq. We're fighting nationalist insurgents, sectarian militias, and a small group that calls themselves "Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia", but is only loosely affiliated with OBL, and almost certainly is not affiliated with their broader goals and ideology.

Bin Laden can crow all he wants if we leave iraq. It will be meaningless bluster, not worth more american blood to allegedly prevent giving him that satisfaction.

If anything, I believe Bin Laden is thrilled that we are in iraq, and would be thrilled if we stayed.

 

[Battleborne]

Who BB? Oh for God sakes, post a picture of a Heiniken, then you'll get a response. Otherwise....forget it.

go away already...I have been leaving you alone...please do the same!

 

[uscitizen]

Well, a lot of people believe your first sentence Damo, believe it or not, even some democrats who were against the initial invasion.

I am one for sure, and boy the grief and ridicule that was heaped on me by many on this board. Of course that mostly took place on a prior board though.
Heck I even admitted to voting for Clinton during the heat of the Monica scandal Many of those who bashed the heck out of me for my anti war stance will not admit to being a bush enabler now... Not to name any names butt ....Danodemento is one outstanding example of that.
a couple of years ago it would have been hard to find a more devout follower of Bush Than Mr. Dano.

At least Dixie had enough sense to leave in embaressment.

 

[uscitizen]

go away already...I have been leaving you alone...please do the same!

translates to.
Leave me alone with my misery and bottle.

 

[Cancel7]

If you will just agree that your party is not doing all that it could to end the war as soon as possible I would be satisfied.

But you see our point. Considering the amount of time Democrats have spent discussing the failure of Iraq, it is rather dishonest and typically political of them not to do all in their power to end it.

No, they aren't doing everything they can to end it as soon as possible. If ending it as soon as possible is the only consideration. They could begin impeachment hearings even. I know that.