Election Results

[StoneByStone]

Starting a business is a lot harder in much of Europe than here. This is particularly true in social democracies, so I don't see how that is beneficial for the working class.

Source?

I've seen a few studies on this and all of them give America and most of Europe around the same rankings. Some have America higher or lower than Denmark, but none of them put Denmark much lower.

The secular ones push globalist agendas through media. The religious ones don't tend to do that.

Totally true, but the religious ones are still funding politicians.

Fair enough, but they also are more conservative regarding gender roles. Feminism in Japan seems a lot more functional there than the nonsense pushed here.

I think the SJW Feminism here doesn't actually exist in large numbers. The reason it seems like it does is because we have the Alt-Right.

That would just be changing who the elites are. Social democracy still has elites.

Yes, but they have much less money, which means they have much less power.

If that's the case, then they must have done that for over a thousand years. It's more realistic to note that the LGBT lobby wasn't a thing until recently. The distraction is activists making a big stink about supposed rights.

The LGBT lobby wasn't a thing until recently because in ancient times nobody cared if someone was gay or trans. Of course there isn't going to be a lobby fighting for trans rights in a society that already recognizes multiple genders and gender fluidity.

So, the only Muslims you were referring to were Eastern Europeans? If so, most of the movement of Muslims in Europe aren't among that group.

There are also plenty of white Arabs that immigrate to Europe. Not every Middle Easterner or North African is brown.

 

[Saudade]

Source?

I've seen a few studies on this and all of them give America and most of Europe around the same rankings. Some have America higher or lower than Denmark, but none of them put Denmark much lower.

I'm going by the Economic Freedom Index. https://www.heritage.org/index/?version=167

Denmark does rank higher than us, but we rank higher than most nations that could be described as social democracies. To clarify, I'm not saying that being a social democracy automatically makes doing business harder, but it usually does.

I think the SJW Feminism here doesn't actually exist in large numbers. The reason it seems like it does is because we have the Alt-Right.

It's all over social media. Granted, feminism is less of an issue as compared with racial propaganda (like BLM) and trans "inclusion".

Yes, but they have much less money, which means they have much less power.

Depends. The most powerful elites aren't hindered by borders -- like George Soros. The only way to fight those people is to restrict foreign influences.

The LGBT lobby wasn't a thing until recently because in ancient times nobody cared if someone was gay or trans. Of course there isn't going to be a lobby fighting for trans rights in a society that already recognizes multiple genders and gender fluidity.

Or, it was a matter of them staying discrete about it.

There are also plenty of white Arabs that immigrate to Europe. Not every Middle Easterner or North African is brown.

I guess you'd have to make the differentiation then. The identifiers for Muslims in Europe aren't as much about skin tone as dress.

 

[StoneByStone]

I'm going by the Economic Freedom Index. https://www.heritage.org/index/?version=167

Denmark does rank higher than us, but we rank higher than most nations that could be described as social democracies. To clarify, I'm not saying that being a social democracy automatically makes doing business harder, but it usually does.

According to this, we're not even in the top ten. I'm sure there are a few Social Democracies that aren't as easy to start businesses in as America, but by how much? If it doesn't even make much of a difference, then meh?

It's all over social media. Granted, feminism is less of an issue as compared with racial propaganda (like BLM) and trans "inclusion".

Yeah, because the Alt-Right obsesses over the tiny number of examples. If SJW Feminism was common, they wouldn't need to say the MCU has been taken over by Feminism.

Depends. The most powerful elites aren't hindered by borders -- like George Soros. The only way to fight those people is to restrict foreign influences.

Which I'm all for, but we should also restrict the amount of money they can make. And that does involve other countries to get on board, but in the West, we're the only ones afraid of "Socialism."

Or, it was a matter of them staying discrete about it.

If in ancient times, nobody cared that someone was trans, why would they even have needed trans activists? It's not that they were discrete, it's that they didn't exist.
You know how Incels complain about how there are no straight rights activists? The simple response to that is, why would we need any?

I guess you'd have to make the differentiation then. The identifiers for Muslims in Europe aren't as much about skin tone as dress.

And their clothes aren't keeping them from assimilating. As in America, the European Muslims assimilate better than Conservatives do.

 

[Saudade]

Yeah, because the Alt-Right obsesses over the tiny number of examples. If SJW Feminism was common, they wouldn't need to say the MCU has been taken over by Feminism.

I was referring more to its presence in the education system and how it propagates myths (like the gender wage gap).

Which I'm all for, but we should also restrict the amount of money they can make. And that does involve other countries to get on board, but in the West, we're the only ones afraid of "Socialism."

How exactly could you limit how much money they make?

If in ancient times, nobody cared that someone was trans, why would they even have needed trans activists? It's not that they were discrete, it's that they didn't exist.
You know how Incels complain about how there are no straight rights activists? The simple response to that is, why would we need any?

The only reason people care is because government has been forcing people to accommodate them. Businesses should be free to make decisions on their own regarding this issue.

And their clothes aren't keeping them from assimilating. As in America, the European Muslims assimilate better than Conservatives do.

So, your definition of assimilation is to submit to progressive social agendas.

 

[StoneByStone]

I was referring more to its presence in the education system and how it propagates myths (like the gender wage gap).

The gender wage gap is probably the only widespread feminist myth and it's based on something that's actually true, which is that social sexism is still a thing.
Other than that, what does the education system get wrong that we can blame on SJW Feminism?

How exactly could you limit how much money they make?

Use taxation on the rich to fund universal healthcare and UBI.

The only reason people care is because government has been forcing people to accommodate them. Businesses should be free to make decisions on their own regarding this issue.

I disagree with private businesses not being allowed to discriminate. However, the reason the LGBT rights movement happened is because there was widespread oppression. People didn't suddenly become homophobic and transphobic recently. We had homophobia and transphobia first, THEN we got the LGBT rights movement to counter that.

So, your definition of assimilation is to submit to progressive social agendas.

Depends what you mean by "progressive." I think assimilation generally means accepting western values and considering yourself part of society. Conservatives are much more likely to reject western values than Muslim Americans are.

 

[Saudade]

The gender wage gap is probably the only widespread feminist myth and it's based on something that's actually true, which is that social sexism is still a thing.
Other than that, what does the education system get wrong that we can blame on SJW Feminism?

For starters, the campus tribunal system that presumes guilt whenever someone is accused of rape or assault. Many campuses still have these ridiculous systems, and they're based on an illogical response to a real problem. It doesn't matter that the problem is real when the approach to solving it is stupid and causes more harm than good.

Use taxation on the rich to fund universal healthcare and UBI.

You're going to need to raise taxes on everyone to fund both of those. I'm assuming you know this if you've been paying attention to the various countries you admire. Every social democracy has high taxes overall, because that's needed to fund an extensive welfare state.

I disagree with private businesses not being allowed to discriminate. However, the reason the LGBT rights movement happened is because there was widespread oppression. People didn't suddenly become homophobic and transphobic recently. We had homophobia and transphobia first, THEN we got the LGBT rights movement to counter that.

Prejudice and abuse toward homosexuals is one thing, but transgender people are mentally ill. They shouldn't be abused, but they should be counseled. Surgery and hormones aren't the answer except in the most extreme circumstances.

Depends what you mean by "progressive." I think assimilation generally means accepting western values and considering yourself part of society. Conservatives are much more likely to reject western values than Muslim Americans are.

Define western values then. Progressives aren't exactly constitutionalist, individualist, or champions of free speech. They also often oppose gun rights. So, many of the western values in the Constitution aren't exactly what they favor.

 

[Nordberg]

Today, non-white people are treated better than white people. But I do think in a few decades, America will have a South Africa situation.

You cannot believe that. Blacks are treated much worse.

 

[StoneByStone]

You cannot believe that. Blacks are treated much worse.

In what ways?

 

[StoneByStone]

For starters, the campus tribunal system that presumes guilt whenever someone is accused of rape or assault. Many campuses still have these ridiculous systems, and they're based on an illogical response to a real problem. It doesn't matter that the problem is real when the approach to solving it is stupid and causes more harm than good.

So basically, they make decisions based on gender roles. They assume that all men are sex-crazed monsters and all women are puritanical victims who could never lie about rape.
The solution for this is Feminism.
Same goes for the sexism in the courts. Women get custody of the children because of the belief that all women are better at care-giving than all men.
The solution for this is Feminism.

You're going to need to raise taxes on everyone to fund both of those. I'm assuming you know this if you've been paying attention to the various countries you admire. Every social democracy has high taxes overall, because that's needed to fund an extensive welfare state.

Sure, but with all of the welfare policies they have, they're still saving more overall.
And IMO, no European country has gone far enough when it comes to Social Democracy. But no country is perfect.

Prejudice and abuse toward homosexuals is one thing, but transgender people are mentally ill. They shouldn't be abused, but they should be counseled. Surgery and hormones aren't the answer except in the most extreme circumstances.

Yes, that's how it is now. If a person has gender dysphoria, they can't just get surgery the moment they want. They have to go through a long process of trying therapy and medication before a doctor will operate on them as a last resort.
Now despite all of that, there is still a ton of oppression against trans people. So, unsurprisingly, there are trans rights activists.

Define western values then. Progressives aren't exactly constitutionalist, individualist, or champions of free speech. They also often oppose gun rights. So, many of the western values in the Constitution aren't exactly what they favor.

Western values are things like Democracy, checks and balances, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, equality before the law, and Abolitionism.
These are all left-wing ideas.

 

[Nordberg]

In what ways?

Are you kidding? Start out with cops and how they treat blacks. They created BLM with the abuse. Look at school financing and how we put them at a disadvantage throughout their entire lives. there is so much more. Like blacks getting longer terms for the same offenses as whites. The bail system is another. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2018/02/21/447051/systematic-inequality/

 

[StoneByStone]

Are you kidding? Start out with cops and how they treat blacks. They created BLM with the abuse. Look at school financing and how we put them at a disadvantage throughout their entire lives. there is so much more. Like blacks getting longer terms for the same offenses as whites. The bail system is another. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2018/02/21/447051/systematic-inequality/

Cops also get away with killing Whites.
School financing is a result of classism. Schools in poor white neighborhoods are also underfunded.
Blacks do get longer terms for the same offenses, but that's because Blacks tend to have previous convictions. They also usually have less money for good lawyers, which is also classism not racism.

 

[Nordberg]

Cops also get away with killing Whites.
School financing is a result of classism. Schools in poor white neighborhoods are also underfunded.
Blacks do get longer terms for the same offenses, but that's because Blacks tend to have previous convictions. They also usually have less money for good lawyers, which is also classism not racism.

Take out previous convictions and blacks get more time. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2018/02/21/447051/systematic-inequality/
It is true that blacks and poor whites live in similar conditions. They do not get respect from the police of the educational system. One plan of the super wealthy is to separate blacks and poor whites and convince them each other are responsible for their sad conditions. They keep them looking away from the real problem. It is not that we cannot take care of our people, but that we can't sate the greed of those on top. They never have enough.
During this terrible year, the wealthy took 900 billion more out of the system.

 

[Saudade]

So basically, they make decisions based on gender roles. They assume that all men are sex-crazed monsters and all women are puritanical victims who could never lie about rape.
The solution for this is Feminism.
Same goes for the sexism in the courts. Women get custody of the children because of the belief that all women are better at care-giving than all men.
The solution for this is Feminism.

Except for the fact that feminists pushed for the tribunals. They didn't push for the removal of gender roles in these cases. Hell, they even stuck behind accusers that were proven to be lying later (like Emma Sulkowicz). As for the custody issue, I rarely hear feminists take issue with the favoritism toward women in those cases.

Sure, but with all of the welfare policies they have, they're still saving more overall.
And IMO, no European country has gone far enough when it comes to Social Democracy. But no country is perfect.

Sure, no country is perfect, but as far as Europe goes, Poland seems close.

Yes, that's how it is now. If a person has gender dysphoria, they can't just get surgery the moment they want. They have to go through a long process of trying therapy and medication before a doctor will operate on them as a last resort.
Now despite all of that, there is still a ton of oppression against trans people. So, unsurprisingly, there are trans rights activists.

That doesn't seem to be the case when considering that children are being given hormone blockers.

Western values are things like Democracy, checks and balances, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, equality before the law, and Abolitionism.
These are all left-wing ideas.

Historically, you could call them left wing, perhaps, but a lot of progressives have been undermining some of them nowadays.

 

[StoneByStone]

Except for the fact that feminists pushed for the tribunals. They didn't push for the removal of gender roles in these cases. Hell, they even stuck behind accusers that were proven to be lying later (like Emma Sulkowicz). As for the custody issue, I rarely hear feminists take issue with the favoritism toward women in those cases.

Well individual Feminists don't always do the right thing. A lot of them do just hate men. But these norms didn't come from Feminism, they came from traditional gender roles. And the solution to them is Feminism, whether or not Feminists always live up to what they claim to want.
What is the Anti-SJW solution to sexism in the courts? A return to traditional gender roles? That would mean men get fucked even more than they are now in divorces and child custody.

Sure, no country is perfect, but as far as Europe goes, Poland seems close.

Poland didn't do so well when it was a puppet state of the Soviet Union. Now it looks like it's about to lose its Democracy again, this time to the imaginary threat of Cultural Marxism.

That doesn't seem to be the case when considering that children are being given hormone blockers.

All of the studies say hormone blockers are harmless.

Historically, you could call them left wing, perhaps, but a lot of progressives have been undermining some of them nowadays.

Examples?

Even AOC said that we should not have laws against hate speech, meanwhile Trump wants to make it illegal to burn the flag.

Conservatives break the TOS on private platforms, then cry about how "the Left" is against freedom of speech. Then these same Conservatives support actual laws that would jail people for saying things.

 

[Saudade]

Well individual Feminists don't always do the right thing. A lot of them do just hate men. But these norms didn't come from Feminism, they came from traditional gender roles. And the solution to them is Feminism, whether or not Feminists always live up to what they claim to want.
What is the Anti-SJW solution to sexism in the courts? A return to traditional gender roles? That would mean men get fucked even more than they are now in divorces and child custody.

The Anti-SJW position would be to end the tribunals and let the actual court system handle allegations of rape or sexual assault. Now, when it comes to custody cases, that's just a matter of applying common sense. You could say that reducing certain gender assumptions/roles would be appropriate, but that doesn't require feminism.

Poland didn't do so well when it was a puppet state of the Soviet Union. Now it looks like it's about to lose its Democracy again, this time to the imaginary threat of Cultural Marxism.

How so? The current ruling conservative alliance is doing quite well currently.

All of the studies say hormone blockers are harmless.

Hormone blockers are basically the same as chemicals that we refer to as endocrine disruptors. If it actually is true these blockers are "harmless", then why are disruptors a problem?

Examples?

Freedom of speech goes beyond just government. If private means of communication are monopolistic or oligopolistic, then censorship done by the ownership of these platforms negatively affects freedom of speech in a practical sense. This is a concept that the left used to acknowledge when Hollywood had certain "moral codes" in terms of content before the 60s. As soon as the social left took over social media, they conveniently dropped this concern, because the censorship favors their side.

Even AOC said that we should not have laws against hate speech, meanwhile Trump wants to make it illegal to burn the flag.

Conservatives break the TOS on private platforms, then cry about how "the Left" is against freedom of speech. Then these same Conservatives support actual laws that would jail people for saying things.

If the TOS was evenly applied to progressives as it is applied to conservatives, that would be a valid argument. It isn't. Twitter is the most blatant about this.

 

[StoneByStone]

The Anti-SJW position would be to end the tribunals and let the actual court system handle allegations of rape or sexual assault. Now, when it comes to custody cases, that's just a matter of applying common sense. You could say that reducing certain gender assumptions/roles would be appropriate, but that doesn't require feminism.

The courts are biased against men when it comes to rape too. They have the traditional idea that all men are sex-crazed monsters and a woman could never rape a man because women are weak and the man would have enjoyed it, anyway.
If Conservativism has taught us anything, it's that tradition makes it very hard to use common sense. Gender roles go against common sense, but when a society has done something for so long, it's hard to change it. That's why social change takes so long and usually requires the oldest generation dying out.

Feminism is essentially the abolition of gender roles. Which is good, it's just that "Feminism" has become a dirty word.

How so? The current ruling conservative alliance is doing quite well currently.

Of course, that's why they're moving away from Democracy. Conservatism is the gateway to Fascism.

Hormone blockers are basically the same as chemicals that we refer to as endocrine disruptors. If it actually is true these blockers are "harmless", then why are disruptors a problem?

I haven't looked into endocrine disruptors, but I have looked into the studies on harmone blockers used on kids who think they might be trans. According to the data, they don't cause any long-term harm.

Freedom of speech goes beyond just government. If private means of communication are monopolistic or oligopolistic, then censorship done by the ownership of these platforms negatively affects freedom of speech in a practical sense. This is a concept that the left used to acknowledge when Hollywood had certain "moral codes" in terms of content before the 60s. As soon as the social left took over social media, they conveniently dropped this concern, because the censorship favors their side.

First of all, the Left hasn't taken over social media. The Right just can't stop breaking the TOS on every site because Fascism is all about destroying anyone you perceive to be weaker or different. Social media is actually less strict with conservative figures, because they don't want to come off as biased. That's why Steve Bannon hasn't been suspended from Facebook, despite threatening murder.

Secondly, no social media site has a monopoly. We have Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr, and now apparently there are a bunch of new social media sites specifically for Fascists, such as Gab and Parler.
The real argument here seems to be against Capitalism for letting a few sites become too successful.

If the TOS was evenly applied to progressives as it is applied to conservatives, that would be a valid argument. It isn't. Twitter is the most blatant about this.

Like I said, Conservatives get away with more because sites are afraid of looking biased. Conservatives just break the TOS more because they all have the mentality of a 15 year old who just read "Might is Right."

 

[Saudade]

Of course, that's why they're moving away from Democracy. Conservatism is the gateway to Fascism.

Ok, well, leftism is the gateway to socialism and communism.

I haven't looked into endocrine disruptors, but I have looked into the studies on harmone blockers used on kids who think they might be trans. According to the data, they don't cause any long-term harm.

Then why not use them on everyone? Hell, maybe we should just choose our genders later in adolescence. No harm in that, right?

First of all, the Left hasn't taken over social media. The Right just can't stop breaking the TOS on every site because Fascism is all about destroying anyone you perceive to be weaker or different. Social media is actually less strict with conservative figures, because they don't want to come off as biased. That's why Steve Bannon hasn't been suspended from Facebook, despite threatening murder.

Secondly, no social media site has a monopoly. We have Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr, and now apparently there are a bunch of new social media sites specifically for Fascists, such as Gab and Parler.
The real argument here seems to be against Capitalism for letting a few sites become too successful.

Like I said, Conservatives get away with more because sites are afraid of looking biased. Conservatives just break the TOS more because they all have the mentality of a 15 year old who just read "Might is Right."

There was a time when we could have productive conversations, but I think that time is over. You clearly live in a different reality from mine. It's nothing personal, but this will be my last post with you. I'm sure you won't mind either, since I'm just a fascist anyway.