Eleven rules for debating leftists.
- Thread starter Grugore
- Start date
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
First of all, progressive liberals debate one another, not wingnuts.
Progressives and wingnuts aren't debating the means to a common goal.
They have different goals. There's nothing to debate.
Beyond that, though, wingnut Trumpanzees enter contests of wit completely unarmed.
Progressives and wingnuts aren't debating the means to a common goal.
They have different goals. There's nothing to debate.
Beyond that, though, wingnut Trumpanzees enter contests of wit completely unarmed.
CharacterAssassin
Verified User
Evidently he's doing the same to me, and he's on ignore, so it's nice to know he's seeing this.
It'll make him do that spaz-dance he's so famous for.
Good that he finally came out as a lifelong Marxist.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Top,
There a no such absolutes. It is a matter of degree between substance and flames.
I didn't say it was hard. I said it was a chore - a time eater.
Life is full of problems. I have the best solution I can find already in practice. Like so many things, it could be better but it is workable
No. That would be taunting, a form of trolling. And redundant. Since I use my Ignore List as a thread ban list it is possible for anyone to see if I have them on Ignore. I see no point in wasting my time by interacting with those whom I have chosen to avoid interaction with. I would rather spend my time here focusing on ideas and current events. Remember what Elanor Roosevelt said.
There a no such absolutes. It is a matter of degree between substance and flames.
I didn't say it was hard. I said it was a chore - a time eater.
Life is full of problems. I have the best solution I can find already in practice. Like so many things, it could be better but it is workable
No. That would be taunting, a form of trolling. And redundant. Since I use my Ignore List as a thread ban list it is possible for anyone to see if I have them on Ignore. I see no point in wasting my time by interacting with those whom I have chosen to avoid interaction with. I would rather spend my time here focusing on ideas and current events. Remember what Elanor Roosevelt said.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Grugore,
This is old baloney. Nothing but a regurgitation of Ann Coulter's book how to talk to a liberal.
Most of it is useless, based on incorrect assumptions.
The premise is a gross oversimplification. It amounts to stereotyping, as if all liberals are alike.
The problem is: All liberals are not alike. People are complex.
I am a liberal and this strategy won't work on me.
Here is the first incorrect assumption:
"You will be castigated. You will get punched. That’s the way it will go because that’s how the left wins: through intimidation and cruelty."
I am on the left, and I don't do that. I am going to attack your ideas, not you.
There are people on BOTH sides who are trapped by that incorrect assumption about the other side. It's false. The very basic idea that it is possible to 'win' these internet forum debates is flawed, incorrect. Nobody wins here. It's just a discussion. We are trading ideas, concepts, philosophy. We are learning what motivates those who hold other views.
Secondly, I only want to talk to people who engage in civil discourse. There must be a basic agreement that you are OK and I am OK, or civil discourse is not possible.
Many come here with a huge grudge they want to settle. They blame somebody for something and they want to get it off their chest. They want to unload their frustration on somebody else, (it almost doesn't matter whom,) anybody. That may generate a temporary endorphin rush, but it's not really very informative, it causes needless stress, and any relief from unloading quickly vanishes with the stress of frustration coming right back. Great minds are bored with this sort of petulance.
This is old baloney. Nothing but a regurgitation of Ann Coulter's book how to talk to a liberal.
Most of it is useless, based on incorrect assumptions.
The premise is a gross oversimplification. It amounts to stereotyping, as if all liberals are alike.
The problem is: All liberals are not alike. People are complex.
I am a liberal and this strategy won't work on me.
Here is the first incorrect assumption:
"You will be castigated. You will get punched. That’s the way it will go because that’s how the left wins: through intimidation and cruelty."
I am on the left, and I don't do that. I am going to attack your ideas, not you.
There are people on BOTH sides who are trapped by that incorrect assumption about the other side. It's false. The very basic idea that it is possible to 'win' these internet forum debates is flawed, incorrect. Nobody wins here. It's just a discussion. We are trading ideas, concepts, philosophy. We are learning what motivates those who hold other views.
Secondly, I only want to talk to people who engage in civil discourse. There must be a basic agreement that you are OK and I am OK, or civil discourse is not possible.
Many come here with a huge grudge they want to settle. They blame somebody for something and they want to get it off their chest. They want to unload their frustration on somebody else, (it almost doesn't matter whom,) anybody. That may generate a temporary endorphin rush, but it's not really very informative, it causes needless stress, and any relief from unloading quickly vanishes with the stress of frustration coming right back. Great minds are bored with this sort of petulance.
Or they don't like being called out on their BS.
Conservatives literally need a guidebook for how to communicate with people.
Read the title again. I said leftists. Not liberals. Do you appreciate the difference? One can be a liberal without being a leftist.
Not really. The crowd this is intended for use against is not interested in communication. Leftists do not communicate. They preach their twisted version of reality to any who will listen. They lie, cheat and steal. It is intended to teach others how to cut through the mountains of bs and falsehoods that are the lifeblood of leftists.
CharacterAssassin
Verified User
You should consider both sobriety and being less stupid.
The one might possibly lead to the other in your case.
Sounds like projection to me.
Well-said, Comrade.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Grugore,
No, I have not heard that. I would have thought that 'leftist' meant anyone on the left, from moderately left to far left, ie, liberals.
Do you believe it specifically means 'left winger?'
My understanding is that the left, 'leftists' could be further delineated by a scale with moderate at one end and extreme at the other. I believe that 'left wing' and 'extreme left' are the same thing.
I do not believe that 'left' and 'left wing' are the same thing. That makes no sense. If those are the same, then why bother saying 'wing'?
No, I have not heard that. I would have thought that 'leftist' meant anyone on the left, from moderately left to far left, ie, liberals.
Do you believe it specifically means 'left winger?'
My understanding is that the left, 'leftists' could be further delineated by a scale with moderate at one end and extreme at the other. I believe that 'left wing' and 'extreme left' are the same thing.
I do not believe that 'left' and 'left wing' are the same thing. That makes no sense. If those are the same, then why bother saying 'wing'?
The left’s entire playbook consists of a single play: characterizing the opposition.
TOP
Retired Teacher
Ok...thanks for taking the time to post a very civil reply. I appreciate it...I hope others follow your lead when it comes to those they have on ignore...
Not all liberals are same. There are social liberals, fiscal liberals, as well as combinations of the two. When say leftist, I'm referring leftist progressives. In my humble opinion, such people are no better than socialists or communists. They are opposed to everything that made America the greatest nation in history. They are against everything that is good and decent. They hate America and the Christian values it was built on. I have more respect for a murderer than I do for leftists. The first may take your life. Leftists want to take your freedom.
Well-said, Comrade.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Top,
You're welcome. I hope so too!
I try to act in such a way as to satisfy the following: "If everyone did that, would it be OK?" I would love it if everyone were to simply engage only in civil discourse. But of course that's not happening. So I deal with it in my own way. I think it is a good way. It works very well for me. And I do believe that if everyone who wanted civil discourse out of others, and were to really try to only engage in that themselves, the board would be far more functional as opposed to dysfunctional. (I consider flame wars to be dysfunctional.)
I would like to see the forum have more rational debate and less flaming, but all I control is how I act, so I do my best to simply be nice. That's what I want to put out there. I don't see any reason to be mean, just because people disagree on policy, or even facts.
America is designed to have diverse individual freedom of thought and the natural associated disagreements. That's actually a strength of our country. It is part of what makes America great. We generally think of just about everything, discuss it all, and somehow manage to transform all of that into policy. Sure, it's a convoluted system, but that's the best way our forefathers could think of to try to represent the wishes of the people. This is our system of self-government. We don't have monarchs, rulers or dictators, we have elected leaders and elected representation.
I think it's kind of silly to get angry at another American just because they have had different life experiences and believe differently about the nation. If they will talk about it nicely, I am happy to explore why they believe what they do, and compare that to my own reasoning. That helps me test/validate/modify my own thinking and helps me to be better informed.
Different people come here for different reasons. Some place far too much emphasis on 'winning' these arguments (for whatever that is worth, if anything.) You know at best there are a few hundred people here? On a big day? Some seem to think they have the whole nation/world as their audience as they type. I don't see it that way. There are really only a small number of eyes following this. It is primarily for our own amusement/information. When has Fox News or CNN even MENTIONED something that was said here? It's like we don't even EXIST. This place is for the few of us who choose to come here. I have invited several people here who came, were promptly offended, and then they left.
If we made it nicer, we would probably get a smarter, more well informed group of participants. We don't have to let it all by guided by the least common denominators. Always remember: This place is NOT proportionally representative of our nation's views.
I don't want to have a habit of going online to have nasty arguments. That's bad juju. I don't want it in my head. I'm afraid if I let myself do that it will infect my thinking in real life. I don't want to live with the bad vibes all the time. No. That cannot be a habit. I want to have positive thoughts, be positive. Maybe if I do that, and others do too, we can bring the overall demeanor of this place up a notch. Sure could use it. All I can do is my own part.
And I can remind everyone that this place is what we make it. We get out of this place what we put into it.
My experience here is likely very different from what it might be for negative people.
Ok...thanks for taking the time to post a very civil reply. I appreciate it...I hope others follow your lead when it comes to those they have on ignore...
You're welcome. I hope so too!
I try to act in such a way as to satisfy the following: "If everyone did that, would it be OK?" I would love it if everyone were to simply engage only in civil discourse. But of course that's not happening. So I deal with it in my own way. I think it is a good way. It works very well for me. And I do believe that if everyone who wanted civil discourse out of others, and were to really try to only engage in that themselves, the board would be far more functional as opposed to dysfunctional. (I consider flame wars to be dysfunctional.)
I would like to see the forum have more rational debate and less flaming, but all I control is how I act, so I do my best to simply be nice. That's what I want to put out there. I don't see any reason to be mean, just because people disagree on policy, or even facts.
America is designed to have diverse individual freedom of thought and the natural associated disagreements. That's actually a strength of our country. It is part of what makes America great. We generally think of just about everything, discuss it all, and somehow manage to transform all of that into policy. Sure, it's a convoluted system, but that's the best way our forefathers could think of to try to represent the wishes of the people. This is our system of self-government. We don't have monarchs, rulers or dictators, we have elected leaders and elected representation.
I think it's kind of silly to get angry at another American just because they have had different life experiences and believe differently about the nation. If they will talk about it nicely, I am happy to explore why they believe what they do, and compare that to my own reasoning. That helps me test/validate/modify my own thinking and helps me to be better informed.
Different people come here for different reasons. Some place far too much emphasis on 'winning' these arguments (for whatever that is worth, if anything.) You know at best there are a few hundred people here? On a big day? Some seem to think they have the whole nation/world as their audience as they type. I don't see it that way. There are really only a small number of eyes following this. It is primarily for our own amusement/information. When has Fox News or CNN even MENTIONED something that was said here? It's like we don't even EXIST. This place is for the few of us who choose to come here. I have invited several people here who came, were promptly offended, and then they left.
If we made it nicer, we would probably get a smarter, more well informed group of participants. We don't have to let it all by guided by the least common denominators. Always remember: This place is NOT proportionally representative of our nation's views.
I don't want to have a habit of going online to have nasty arguments. That's bad juju. I don't want it in my head. I'm afraid if I let myself do that it will infect my thinking in real life. I don't want to live with the bad vibes all the time. No. That cannot be a habit. I want to have positive thoughts, be positive. Maybe if I do that, and others do too, we can bring the overall demeanor of this place up a notch. Sure could use it. All I can do is my own part.
And I can remind everyone that this place is what we make it. We get out of this place what we put into it.
My experience here is likely very different from what it might be for negative people.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Grugore,
Thanks for the explanation.
Do you mind if I challenge you on some of those ideas?
How do you know that leftists or leftist progressives hate America and Christian values? Where does that actually originate? I don't think it is true.
I consider myself a leftist progressive, an atheist, and I assure you: I love America, and I do not hate Christian values. I have no reason to hate America. I love living here. I love my life. I feel so lucky that I was born here instead of Somalia.
I do disagree with much of what the right wants to do, but I don't hate the right. I have friends and relatives on both sides of the political spectrum and I love them all. It makes no sense for me to hate somebody just because they believe differently. But I digress. Hate itself makes no sense. I have created a life I can love to be in. I love my life, and I surround myself with people I can love. I can even love negative people, but I understand it is best to love some people at a distance. Who needs to be in close proximity to a bunch of negative energy?
I've had jobs were I had to work with negative people. Such bad energy! I always tried to keep my distance from that. It's bad for the karma.
I guess a lot of people never figured any of that out and just wallow in negative energy. Sounds pretty depressing to me.
It affirms my atheism when I see Christians display hatred, even though they follow a religion built around a guy who loved everybody. I'm no Christian, but it makes perfect logical sense to love universally. Such a nice life that way! How can people who worship 'Mr Universal Love' (Jesus) leave church and then come here and spew hatred? SMH Makes no sense at all.
Also, I must comment on your last:
Makes no sense to me. What good is freedom if you're dead?
Rest assured. I do not want to take your freedom. I LOVE freedom!
Thanks for the explanation.
Do you mind if I challenge you on some of those ideas?
How do you know that leftists or leftist progressives hate America and Christian values? Where does that actually originate? I don't think it is true.
I consider myself a leftist progressive, an atheist, and I assure you: I love America, and I do not hate Christian values. I have no reason to hate America. I love living here. I love my life. I feel so lucky that I was born here instead of Somalia.
I do disagree with much of what the right wants to do, but I don't hate the right. I have friends and relatives on both sides of the political spectrum and I love them all. It makes no sense for me to hate somebody just because they believe differently. But I digress. Hate itself makes no sense. I have created a life I can love to be in. I love my life, and I surround myself with people I can love. I can even love negative people, but I understand it is best to love some people at a distance. Who needs to be in close proximity to a bunch of negative energy?
I've had jobs were I had to work with negative people. Such bad energy! I always tried to keep my distance from that. It's bad for the karma.
I guess a lot of people never figured any of that out and just wallow in negative energy. Sounds pretty depressing to me.
It affirms my atheism when I see Christians display hatred, even though they follow a religion built around a guy who loved everybody. I'm no Christian, but it makes perfect logical sense to love universally. Such a nice life that way! How can people who worship 'Mr Universal Love' (Jesus) leave church and then come here and spew hatred? SMH Makes no sense at all.
Also, I must comment on your last:
Makes no sense to me. What good is freedom if you're dead?
Rest assured. I do not want to take your freedom. I LOVE freedom!