For Dixie: Bush States 'Iraq Compares To Vietnam'

Dixie: "There are FAR more differences than similarities, between Iraq and Vietnam, and any sort of objective analysis concludes this."

"This is far graver than Vietnam. There wasn't as much at stake strategically, though in both cases we mindlessly went ahead with the war that was not constructive for US aims. But now we're in a region far more volatile, and we're in much worse shape with our allies." -- General William Odom, President Reagan's Director of NSA.



Dixie, your judgment and predictions about iraq are almost always wrong. (See my sig line). I don't trust anything you say about Iraq. I think General Odom is far more likely to be correct, than you or Bush.
 
Why you want to turn Iraq into another Great American Military Defeat, is totally beyond me!

It isn't a matter of wanting it to be.... it is.

It was created by poor strategic thinking by Bush and his regime, a total misunderstanding of ME geo-politics, the pursuit of economic 'strategic interests' over the reality of what was occurring on the ground and the use of ill thought-out tactics by military commanders on the ground (ie use of 'force protection').

What we on this board want is largely irrelevant in the face of this....
 
You make no sense at all there. None lLike ME supported the war. some wussy demoncrats folded to the unpatriotic chant and such.

No, Democrats you plan to re-elect to Congress this election, as your representative voice, DID vote for military force. Bush simply couldn't have gone into Iraq without Democrat support.

Why would we want to vote for someone who never supported the war ? Quite simple oh skully one, becase he would obvioously be smarter than bush and would not be likely got get us into a smiiliar mess. and might be smart enough to salvage what we can from Bush's blundering around.
"if the logical and rational objective is to win the war in Iraq? "

Here is your hang up, you just don't have a clue.

If I don't have a clue, why did you just dodge the question completely, by parsing it? Here's YOUR hang up... You can't answer the question because it makes no logical sense to elect people who oppose the war, and expect them to have a plan to win the war. You further compound the illogical error, by expressing a desire to elect someone who wouldn't pull the trigger regardless of circumstance, and that can be very dangerous. And, oh by the way, Bush isn't running for anything!

and fyi Dix, I am a registered Repbutliken :)

You're a Republican like I am Jimmy Carter!
PINHEAD!
 
success has many parents...failure is an orphan. When the war in Iraq was going well.... all Dixie and his ilk could talk about was how the MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS had been FOOLISH AND UNPATRIOTIC enough to VOTE AGAINST the use of force.

Now that the war has turned into the bloody quagmire that many of us had predicted all along, all Dixie and his ilk can talk about is the MINORITY of democrats who were suckered into voting for the use of force along with nearly every single republican.

Fact: nearly every single republican voted FOR this stupid war. A majority of congressional democrats voted AGAINST it.

You can run away from that cold hard fact all day long, but you cannot escape it. This war is Bush's war.... he wanted it...YOU wanted it.... and now, both of you OWN it.... so don't try to pass it off on democrats. We didn't want it. And history has proven that we were right all along about what a fucking disgusting, counterproductive, bloody mess this would be.

We told you... we warned you... but you thought you were smarter than we were and you thought you were more patriotic than we were...

AND YOU WERE WRONG.

DEAD WRONG.
 
It doesnt' matter Main. Even though you said it would be a disaster to attack Iraq, it's still your responsibility to come up with a "PLAN TO WIN!". And make sure it's feasable. Otherwise, you hate America.
 
exactly.... we warned the republicans that if they walked through the cow pasture, they would step in cowshit...they laughed at us and claimed we were on the wrong side of history for being so cowardly and so unpatiotic as to even suggest that walking through the cow pasture might be hazardous to your shoes.... and now that they are knee deep in cowshit they scream, "Yeah..but what is your plan to clean up all this cowshit all over our shoes, socks and pants?"

And they wonder why America is getting ready to take the keys away from them?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
maineman said:
exactly.... we warned the republicans that if they walked through the cow pasture, they would step in cowshit...they laughed at us and claimed we were on the wrong side of history for being so cowardly and so unpatiotic as to even suggest that walking through the cow pasture might be hazardous to your shoes.... and now that they are knee deep in cowshit they scream, "Yeah..but what is your plan to clean up all this cowshit all over our shoes, socks and pants?"

And they wonder why America is getting ready to take the keys away from them?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Click to expand...

LOL

Yep, that's them alright. I love the visual on this.
 
AnyOldIron said:
Why you want to turn Iraq into another Great American Military Defeat, is totally beyond me!

It isn't a matter of wanting it to be.... it is.

It was created by poor strategic thinking by Bush and his regime, a total misunderstanding of ME geo-politics, the pursuit of economic 'strategic interests' over the reality of what was occurring on the ground and the use of ill thought-out tactics by military commanders on the ground (ie use of 'force protection').

What we on this board want is largely irrelevant in the face of this....
Click to expand...

You live in an alter reality. When we invaded Saddam's sovereignty, how many ME nations declared war on the US and joined Saddam? Here's a hint... it's close to your IQ!!!

When we invaded, how many nations in the region, cut economic ties, or diplomatic ties, with the US? Here's another hint... it's close to the number of presidential elections Democrats have won by more than 50% the past 40 years.

You claim you have a military background, yet you don't seem to comprehend the fact that there is no such thing as "a perfect war". It doesn't exist, and never has. There have been tactical errors, there have been mistakes and misjudgements, and you know what? It's that way in every single war that has ever been fought on the face of this planet.

Your long-winded protests are completely void of rational objectivity. I could imagine someone making the exact same protest in the midst of WWII. Particularly the days when we lost more men than we've lost in this entire war. Neville Chamberlain comes to mind, when I listen to you.

But regardless of all this, the fact of life remains, we are in Iraq now, and we can't just leave. It simply doesn't matter if you agreed with it, or if you think it has been fought correctly, or how you think it should have been done. Those things simply do not matter at this point in time, and that is a point I wish you people could get through your pinheads.

We toppled the regime, they are gone... we established a new form of government, it's working... we are training security, they are learning... we secured legitimate democratic elections, 8 million voted... (twice the number who elected Bush over Kerry in the US.) The question is, now that we see some rough waters with the sectarian violence, do we continue to finish the job, or do we give up everything we've accomplished so far, and abandon the people of Iraq as well as our troops who've fought this war?

You don't like "Stay the Course" ...fine! Give us an alternative course that leads to completion of the objectives and maybe we listen, until you do that, don't expect us to believe you know any better than Bush, how to win the war and advance the war on terror. You see, I could join you in your daily ritual of bashing and criticizing what's being done, how it's being done, who's doing it... it still wouldn't solve the problem or provide solutions.

What I continue to see from you, and others who share your sentiments, are people who simply dislike president Bush, and have allowed their dislike for Bush to completely cloud their judgement and rationality. It becomes more important to turn Iraq into Vietnam and make it this enormous disgrace and shameful episode in American history, so you can hang that around Bush's neck. Security becomes a secondary concern, because you know your government is strong enough to keep you reasonably protected, and any security issues in the future, can simply be blamed on the "incompetence of Bush" and not on any subsequent actions your leadership would take.

You figure you can bail on Iraq, and when it collapses to the radicals in chaos, and millions are dying, you can point your crooked finger at Bush again. You can stick your head in the sand on the War on Terror, because when something does happen, you can play the Bush card again. You can appease and cow-tow to tin-horn dictators, giving them money, technology, and materials, and when they build a nuke and strike an American city, you can blame it on Bush's failed policy in Iraq.

Here's the Democrat Plan for Iraq... Make it a Bush Failure! If it means pulling the troops, de-funding them, or watching Iraq collapse into chaos to radicals, so be it! It doesn't matter if it makes us all less safe in the long run. As long as it's a Bush Failure, that's The Plan!
 
Here's the Democrat Plan for Iraq... Make it a Bush Failure!
//

NO that was the Republican plan. And it worked brilliantly ;)
 
You live in an alter reality. When we invaded Saddam's sovereignty, how many ME nations declared war on the US and joined Saddam? Here's a hint... it's close to your IQ!!!

When we invaded, how many nations in the region, cut economic ties, or diplomatic ties, with the US? Here's another hint... it's close to the number of presidential elections Democrats have won by more than 50% the past 40 years.

How many ME governments are representitive of their populace Dixie?

As I said, total misunderstanding of ME politics. Are you denying that the invasion has enflamed the region, creating more animosity towards the west and ME western-back leaders?

You claim you have a military background, yet you don't seem to comprehend the fact that there is no such thing as "a perfect war". It doesn't exist, and never has. There have been tactical errors, there have been mistakes and misjudgements, and you know what? It's that way in every single war that has ever been fought on the face of this planet.

There is no such thing as a perfect war, but there is such a thing as a total clusterfuck.

That is what the invasion was. Rather than dealing with the problem of Islamic extremism, we were diverted for 'strategic interests' ie economic policy, releasing the world's second largest oil reserves.

Irrespective of the fact that Iraq is a supperating sectarian wound that, when the sticking plaster was pulled off revealed the raw wound, we invaded Iraq. Despite the fact that Iraqi internal politics is a powder keg waiting to go off. We pulled off the plaster without a clue as to how to deal with the sectarian warfare that would ensue. Poor strategic thinking.

When there, US troops adopted the foolish policy of 'force protection' and the same mindless belief in overwhelming firepower that lost the US the Vietnam war. Poor tactical thinking.

Your long-winded protests are completely void of rational objectivity. I could imagine someone making the exact same protest in the midst of WWII. Particularly the days when we lost more men than we've lost in this entire war. Neville Chamberlain comes to mind, when I listen to you.

On the contrary, my comments are supported by the leading general in the British Army, and the majority of those who are outside of the political sphere of Bush and Blair. It is also being recognised by many within that sphere, such as James Baker.

Your blather is severely undermined by reality Dixie, a reality you myopically refuse to address.

We toppled the regime, they are gone... we established a new form of government, it's working... we are training security, they are learning... we secured legitimate democratic elections, 8 million voted... (twice the number who elected Bush over Kerry in the US.) The question is, now that we see some rough waters with the sectarian violence, do we continue to finish the job, or do we give up everything we've accomplished so far, and abandon the people of Iraq as well as our troops who've fought this war? You don't like "Stay the Course" ...fine! Give us an alternative course that leads to completion of the objectives and maybe we listen, until you do that, don't expect us to believe you know any better than Bush, how to win the war and advance the war on terror. You see, I could join you in your daily ritual of bashing and criticizing what's being done, how it's being done, who's doing it... it still wouldn't solve the problem or provide solutions.

You claim this is working when everyone in a position to know, without political allegiance to Bush and Blair state it is not.

The head of the British Army states that our being in Iraq exasperates the insurgency, something I have been stating and you denying for years now.

Mindless dogmatic blather about 'staying the course' doesn't suffice for a strategy. As the head of the BA states, we must lower our expectations. Iraq won't be resolved with western troops on the ground.

I have many, many times offered solutions to the Jihadist problem, solutions that cannot be enacted due to western prejudices and political inability to deal with the situation. Forcing Israel / Pal into a VIABLE two state solution won't be accepted because of the alterior motives of the US political elite.


You figure you can bail on Iraq, and when it collapses to the radicals in chaos, and millions are dying, you can point your crooked finger at Bush again. You can stick your head in the sand on the War on Terror, because when something does happen, you can play the Bush card again. You can appease and cow-tow to tin-horn dictators, giving them money, technology, and materials, and when they build a nuke and strike an American city, you can blame it on Bush's failed policy in Iraq.

Dixie, Iraq has already collapsed into chaos. Claiming that it will if we pull out doesn't fit when the situation already exists and we contribute to that chaos.

Nobody sticks their head in the sand over the battle against Jihadism with the exception of Bush and his acolytes such as yourself.

The solution to the problem is to undermine the extremists, in the manner that succeeded in NI, Malaysia and any other successful defeat of insurgency.

To undermine the extremists means to eradicate the causes that feeds them, Palestine, Chechnya, the House of Saud etc etc. Without that, we are on a hiding to nothing, and will resemble a dog chasing its tail, creating more problems than we resolve.

Here's the Democrat Plan for Iraq... Make it a Bush Failure! If it means pulling the troops, de-funding them, or watching Iraq collapse into chaos to radicals, so be it! It doesn't matter if it makes us all less safe in the long run. As long as it's a Bush Failure, that's The Plan!

Dixie, it is a Bush failure. The whole thing has been a cock-up since day one. Poor strategic thinking, poor tactical thinking.

This is a major flaw in your character, Dixie, the inability to recognise and accept when you have fucked up, you would rather blame others for the failed policy that you supported.

You and yours have no clue how to deal with terrorism and the Islamic extremist problem, except use it to attempt to further economic interests.

Time for Bush and Blair to move over and for people with the balls to address the real problems to take over.

That is something you just have to accept.
 
Poor Dixie. He's just not thinking too clear. That wighat has his brain starved for oxygen...Looks like it is almost time for another VICTORY dance...
 
Are you denying that the invasion has enflamed the region, creating more animosity towards the west and ME western-back leaders?

Here's a newsflash for you... They don't get much more "enflamed" than to fly fucking airplanes full of innocent people into your buildings! There is not a whole lot more "animosity" you can have for someone, than to call for their death in Fatwas and Edicts. You have some foolish concept that something we could have done, would have made them hate us less! If you believe this, you are beyond returning to reality.

These people hated us long before Iraq, and to pretend there was some mystical time where we all got along, is just pathetically stupid. To act like we could have negotiated with the terrorists, or Saddam, or any of these nut cases in the Middle East, is laughable. They understand one thing, force. Lots and lots of massive force. As long as you want to pussy-foot around with them, and act like the scared little liberal you are, they won't respect you, they will laugh at you, mock you behind your back, thumb their nose at your interests, and refuse to abide by the agreements they make.

You seem to want to just continue appeasing these people... give them what they want... don't upset them... don't make them even more angry at us... The fact of the matter is, that doesn't work. Anyone who has ever had any dealings with a bully, knows this doesn't work, it just makes the situation worse. The more you give, the more you are expected to give, and you never GET anything, except more problems and broken promises.
 
Dixie sez:

"You figure you can bail on Iraq, and when it collapses to the radicals in chaos, and millions are dying, you can point your crooked finger at Bush again. You can stick your head in the sand on the War on Terror, because when something does happen, you can play the Bush card again. You can appease and cow-tow to tin-horn dictators, giving them money, technology, and materials, and when they build a nuke and strike an American city, you can blame it on Bush's failed policy in Iraq."

Dixie likes to conflate those two issues all the time - just as his hero in blue jeans does. Iraq and the war on terror. I think the war in Iraq is a terrible mistake. I think the war on islamic extremism is what we should be fighting instead...and the fact that there are a handful of islamic extremists in Iraq now - solely because We happen to be there and WE happen to have deposed the strongman that was previously keeping them OUT of Iraq - is not a viable reason to tie up 150K troops and a half a trillion dollars that could have been spent in a myriad of productive ways to actually defeat islamic extremism rather than provide it with its most successful recruiting program since the creation of Israel.

We HAVE a plan for the war on terror. We need to withdraw our forces from the midst of this Iraqi civil war that we created and let the Iraqis find a solution...and we need to enact the democratic plan for fighting and winning the war on islamic extremism.

Iraq IS a Bush mess and a Bush failure and it WILL go down in history as HIS mistake and the mistake of the republican party. History will show that the war on Islamic extremism finally began to be effectively fought when the Democrats in America finally got this country to focus on Islamic extremism itself and stop conflating that war with the debacle in Iraq...that will ALWAYS be Bush's folly and his alone. We still CAN win the war on extremism if only we would start fighting it with some degree of effectiveness and resolve.
 
dixie...you are wrong on that point. a small minority of people in the middle east hated us prior to 9/11. The vast majority of the middle east was appalled by the action of those 19 folks, and they did NOT support or condone it.

that number of middle easterner who hate us has grown substantially because of our invasion, conquest and occupation of Iraq and because of the terrible civil war that occupation has unleashed.
 
and no one is suggesting appeasing anyone. Certainly not islamic extremists.... I am not at all in favor of doing anything that they want America to do.... much like they wanted us to invade and occupy an oil rich arab country.... now THAT is what I call appeasement!
 
maineman said:
dixie...you are wrong on that point. a small minority of people in the middle east hated us prior to 9/11. The vast majority of the middle east was appalled by the action of those 19 folks, and they did NOT support or condone it.

that number of middle easterner who hate us has grown substantially because of our invasion, conquest and occupation of Iraq and because of the terrible civil war that occupation has unleashed.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right on track Maine.
Dixie is just antisemitic.
 
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