From Freedom To Fascism

I was tempted to post from Popular Mechanics or Perdue University results, but why bother with tinfoil brigade?
Pretty much my sentiment. It takes deliberate ignorance to believe these particular theories, and such insistence often takes away from actual persistent dangers that they also may believe in. It makes them appear to be all made up of "crazies" as those who listen and check in to it, see the evidence, then dismiss any other thing they may bring up as a matter of course.
 
I don't believe in the concept of authority (except for damo). So your orders are merely an interesting phenomenon in my world, well, not even that interesting.

If you believe Damo has authority over you, then you believe in the concept of authority, period, you seem to be getting stupiter by the post, are you on medication? I hate to keep the cyber-skewering up, butt, it as if you leave me no choice, and even try to make it easy for me, with these, amatuer answers? Soon you are going to fall behind usc, on the posting totem poll, and be grouped in with the Diaper Don, Donny, and the lefty fool Superfreak? You need to pick up the pace, if you want to avoid this fate, and who would not want to, sorry? I advise spending less time trying to brainwash the lefty firecracker Darla, who knows, she might go bonkers on you, she is unstable, just ask the Diaper Don? and moore time on practicing your posting skills, capice?
 
If you believe Damo has authority over you, then you believe in the concept of authority, period, you seem to be getting stupiter by the post, are you on medication? I hate to keep the cyber-skewering up, butt, it as if you leave me no choice, and even try to make it easy for me, with these, amatuer answers? Soon you are going to fall behind usc, on the posting totem poll, and be grouped in with the Diaper Don, Donny, and the lefty fool Superfreak? You need to pick up the pace, if you want to avoid this fate, and who would not want to, sorry? I advise spending less time trying to brainwash the lefty firecracker Darla, who knows, she might go bonkers on you, she is unstable, just ask the Diaper Don? and moore time on practicing your posting skills, capice?
while, more often than not, I totally disagree with ASSHAT, his posting skills are far superior to yours, and considering content. the only one I can think of that is worse than you is Battleborne. You don't even talk a good game.
 
If you believe Damo has authority over you, then you believe in the concept of authority, period, you seem to be getting stupiter by the post, are you on medication? I hate to keep the cyber-skewering up, butt, it as if you leave me no choice, and even try to make it easy for me, with these, amatuer answers? Soon you are going to fall behind usc, on the posting totem poll, and be grouped in with the Diaper Don, Donny, and the lefty fool Superfreak? You need to pick up the pace, if you want to avoid this fate, and who would not want to, sorry? I advise spending less time trying to brainwash the lefty firecracker Darla, who knows, she might go bonkers on you, she is unstable, just ask the Diaper Don? and moore time on practicing your posting skills, capice?


No. :pke:
 
I did, I described why I would believe a group of structural engineers over your group of decidedly not quite as qualified professionals.

Seriously, man, they don't even recognize zoning laws in their "questions" and deny direct answers by previous groups of professionals. You have to be extremely gullible to believe such a conspiracy could survive this long and only be in the blogs. It takes total disregard of the fact that the sheer number of those who would have known about it would ensure positive evidence of a "smoking gun" type long ago.

That would only be true in the cases you examined. there are many other less complicated scenerios which are possible.
 
I watched about ten or fifteen minutes of the film, and checked and cross referenced most of the claims made in the first ten minutes. Nearly all of them are false or misleading:


The film posts this quote, from a US District Judge:

“If you…examined (the 16th amendment) carefully, you would find that a sufficient number of states never ratified that amendment” -- US District Court Judge James C. Fox 2003

Misleading and out of context

Judge Fox of North Carolina spoke on the basis of a dim recollection of the sorts of arguments we shall deal with below. This is not a court opinion, simply something he uttered during a hearing.

Fox offered this observation while deliberating a rather crankish lawsuit filed in 2003 by two members of the North Carolina National Guard, who felt that the War Powers act was unconstitutional. Fox argued that the Constitution had, in essence, evolved. He then cited the 16th amendment as an example of this sort of evolution. Here’s the full quote, emphasis added:

"If you were to go back and try to find and review the ratification of the 16th Amendment, which was the internal revenue, income tax, I think if you went back and examined that carefully, you would find that a sufficient number of states never ratified that amendment. And nonetheless, I think it is fair to say that it is part of the constitution of the United States, and I don't think any court would ever set it aside. Well, I've seen that. I've seen somewhere a treatise on that, and I think it was --- I think I'm correct in saying that actually the ratification never really properly occurred. Yet nonetheless, I'm sure no court's going to say that the 16th Amendment permitting income tax is void for any reason. I think there may be something analogous there vis a vis the continued practice of the Executive to have incursions and police actions or to commit the country to hostilities without the formal declaration of war."

Fox cannot cite the source of his impression. He hasn’t studied the matter because it was not germane to the case under discussion. He mentioned the amendment only in passing.

In sum: Russo implies that Fox claimed the Amendment to be unconstitutional; in fact, Fox made exactly the opposite point. Russo implies that Fox ruled on a case involving the 16th Amendment; in fact, the case was about a completely different matter. Russo implies that Fox had studied the facts; Fox could not recall where he got his “facts.”

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/12/america-from-freedom-to-fascism.html

-Further,

Some tax protesters, conspiracy investigators, and others opposed to income taxes cite what they contend is evidence that the Sixteenth Amendment was never "properly ratified." One such argument is that because the legislatures of various states passed resolutions of ratification with different capitalization, spelling of words, or punctuation marks (e.g., semi-colons instead of commas) from the text proposed by Congress, those states' ratifications were invalid. A related argument is that various states illegally violated procedural requirements of their constitutions when passing their ratification resolutions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixtee...ax_protester_arguments_regarding_ratification

Please.

It was an "invalid" ratification, because of some punctuation variances between the states??? Laughable.

Four minutes into the film, Aaron Russo reads a quote widely attributed to Woodrow Wilson:

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”

False.


This is a well-known conflation of several quotes, only two of which can actually be attributed to Woodrow Wilson. Russo probably got the conflated statement off some anti-tax site on the internet. The source of the first two sentences is unknown, and nowhere on record can be found to be said by Wilson. The third sentence (although slightly altered in this version) is found in the eighth chapter of Wilson's book, The New Freedom,[11] and originally reads

A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.

The final sentence (beginning with "We are no longer..."), although again slightly altered from its original version, can also be found in The New Freedom (ninth chapter), and in its original context, reads

We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world--no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America:_From_Freedom_to_Fascism#_note-11


Then there‘s this statement in the film.

“In 1913 America was a “Free Country”. Then a powerful group of Bankers took over. “

Ridiculous and retarded.

Does anyone think America was free - let alone “more” free - in 1913, than it is NOW??? Women couldn’t VOTE in 1913. Blacks couldn’t vote. There was Jim Crow and Poll taxes. Workers were abused by an unregulated capitalist system that ground them down.


This this is said in the film:

“The american people were forced to lower their standard of living, and pay a graduated income tax to the government”

Absolute poppycock

There’s no sane person here who will claim our standard of living has declined since 1913.


Thirteen minutes in, the film displays a quote:

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans." Bill Clinton, March 11, 1993

Intentionally misleading and truncated

What Clinton actually said (on March 1 1993 [13]) was:

We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles—it's something I strongly support—we can't be so fixated on that that we are unable to think about the reality of life that millions of Americans face on streets that are unsafe, under conditions that no other nation—no other nations—has permitted to exist.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=46264


Mr. Russo also said that “Congress has no authority to tax people’s labor.”

Baloney

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution begins with the phrase “The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes.

Only three limitations are placed on that power, none of which bars a tax on wages. One limitation, however, was a requirement that taxes be “apportioned among the several states.”

US Constitution, Article I, Section 8

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8



These false statements were all in the first ten or fifteen minutes. I fast forward to about half way through the film, and he was still blabbing about taxes and the IRS.

This is standard tax conspiracist tripe. Stuff that has been debunked over and over, but is grasped onto by a handful of anti-tax cranks.

This could have been a worthwhile film, if he’d focused on Patriot Act, Enemy combatant statutes, REAL ID act, and warrantless wiretapping, instead of this anti-tax crackpot stuff.


Finally, let’s recall this is the guy who claims to have shown his film at the Cannes Film Festival. A cursory review, shows that it was never shown at the Cannes Festival. He rented a blowup screen, and showed it on the beach at Cannes.

Sorry, beefy. Don’t take offense. This is just my critique of the film. I actually tried to watch it.
 
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I watched about ten or fifteen minutes of the film, and checked and cross referenced most of the claims made in the first ten minutes. Nearly all of them are false or misleading:




Misleading and out of context

Judge Fox of North Carolina spoke on the basis of a dim recollection of the sorts of arguments we shall deal with below. This is not a court opinion, simply something he uttered during a hearing.

Fox offered this observation while deliberating a rather crankish lawsuit filed in 2003 by two members of the North Carolina National Guard, who felt that the War Powers act was unconstitutional. Fox argued that the Constitution had, in essence, evolved. He then cited the 16th amendment as an example of this sort of evolution. Here’s the full quote, emphasis added:



Fox cannot cite the source of his impression. He hasn’t studied the matter because it was not germane to the case under discussion. He mentioned the amendment only in passing.

In sum: Russo implies that Fox claimed the Amendment to be unconstitutional; in fact, Fox made exactly the opposite point. Russo implies that Fox ruled on a case involving the 16th Amendment; in fact, the case was about a completely different matter. Russo implies that Fox had studied the facts; Fox could not recall where he got his “facts.”

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/12/america-from-freedom-to-fascism.html

-Further,

Some tax protesters, conspiracy investigators, and others opposed to income taxes cite what they contend is evidence that the Sixteenth Amendment was never "properly ratified." One such argument is that because the legislatures of various states passed resolutions of ratification with different capitalization, spelling of words, or punctuation marks (e.g., semi-colons instead of commas) from the text proposed by Congress, those states' ratifications were invalid. A related argument is that various states illegally violated procedural requirements of their constitutions when passing their ratification resolutions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixtee...ax_protester_arguments_regarding_ratification

Please.

It was an "invalid" ratification, because of some punctuation variances between the states??? Laughable.



False.


This is a well-known conflation of several quotes, only two of which can actually be attributed to Woodrow Wilson. Russo probably got the conflated statement off some anti-tax site on the internet. The source of the first two sentences is unknown, and nowhere on record can be found to be said by Wilson. The third sentence (although slightly altered in this version) is found in the eighth chapter of Wilson's book, The New Freedom,[11] and originally reads

A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.

The final sentence (beginning with "We are no longer..."), although again slightly altered from its original version, can also be found in The New Freedom (ninth chapter), and in its original context, reads

We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world--no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America:_From_Freedom_to_Fascism#_note-11




Ridiculous and retarded.

Does anyone think America was free - let alone “more” free - in 1913, than it is NOW??? Women couldn’t VOTE in 1913. Blacks couldn’t vote. There was Jim Crow and Poll taxes. Workers were abused by an unregulated capitalist system that ground them down.




Absolute poppycock

There’s no sane person here who will claim our standard of living has declined since 1913.




Intentionally misleading and truncated

What Clinton actually said (on March 1 1993 [13]) was:

We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles—it's something I strongly support—we can't be so fixated on that that we are unable to think about the reality of life that millions of Americans face on streets that are unsafe, under conditions that no other nation—no other nations—has permitted to exist.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=46264




Baloney

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution begins with the phrase “The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes.

Only three limitations are placed on that power, none of which bars a tax on wages. One limitation, however, was a requirement that taxes be “apportioned among the several states.”

US Constitution, Article I, Section 8

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8



These false statements were all in the first ten or fifteen minutes. I fast forward to about half way through the film, and he was still blabbing about taxes and the IRS.

This is standard tax conspiracist tripe. Stuff that has been debunked over and over, but is grasped onto by a handful of anti-tax cranks.

This could have been a worthwhile film, if he’d focused on Patriot Act, Enemy combatant statutes, REAL ID act, and warrantless wiretapping, instead of this anti-tax crackpot stuff.


Finally, let’s recall this is the guy who claims to have shown his film at the Cannes Film Festival. A cursory review, shows that it was never shown at the Cannes Festival. He rented a blowup screen, and showed it on the beach at Cannes.

Sorry, beefy. Don’t take offense. This is just my critique of the film. I actually tried to watch it.

None taken. In fact I appreciate it. I'll have to take a deeper look at it.

But I didn't really care about the tax thing so much as the Federal reserve aspect of it. I'd really like to hear what you say about that. And the rest of the film.
 
None taken. In fact I appreciate it. I'll have to take a deeper look at it.

But I didn't really care about the tax thing so much as the Federal reserve aspect of it. I'd really like to hear what you say about that. And the rest of the film.
Ditto. There is far more to the film than nutty taxes. Keep your head on and watch the flick. None of us are planning on suddenly not filing taxes, so that must not be the parts of the flick that we thought were so fascinating.

Had I only watched 10 minutes of Farenheit 9/11 would I be able to judge the entire movie?
 
Ditto. There is far more to the film than nutty taxes. Keep your head on and watch the flick. None of us are planning on suddenly not filing taxes, so that must not be the parts of the flick that we thought were so fascinating.

I do have it on dvd, I'm going to watch it sometime over the weekend, if I have enough time.
 
I never watched Farenheight, was it good ?
I think I saw supersize me though :)

Oh yeah, I can't believe you haven't seen it. I have the dvd. Of that one, and Bowling for Columbine. I'll get Sicko too when it comes out.

That's right, I love Michael Moore, and, I don't care how fat he gets. (though, unlike Al Gore, I do not want to see him nekid)
 
No cypress, you're a weakminded fool who needs so bad to believe in your "republicans bad, democrats good" paradigm that you will side with the fascist underpinning of our society everytime. The truth is you're too stupid to even understand issues involved. People of all races are enslaved by this privately owned fiat currency system.
 
Selling the fiat currency concept to evil men:

1. give them all buckets of monopoly money.
2. Tell them that if they go kill and conquer the land and institute a fiat currency system, they will become rich magically, by assigning value to worthlessness through force of will.

It's really this simple.
 
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