God is not intelligent, or, why I am a pantheist

There is an objective and universal standard for "good art" and thus far, only one work adheres to it. It's a painting named "Onement VI" and all terrestrial life finds it wonderfully pleasing. This painting sold for $43.8 million in 2013 at a Sothesby auction.

iu
not impressed.
 
It's the "pleasure" part. That's the key. It's why there is no universal standard for "good art".



The aesthetic pleasure bit is questionable. If it attracts a mate then at least one member of that animal is attracted to the thing constructed. It's hard to see how that isn't the same thing. But I generally agree about the "symbolic" and "ritualistic" stuff. That's 100% human.



I just did a quick google search and it sounds like some people are doing exactly that.

"Conducted by University of Toronto researchers, the eight-year long, seven country-spanning meta-study details a vast spectrum of newfound information gleaned from past researach that may prove the age-old adage of art for art’s sake. Some aspects of the original tests included having participants view paintings and make aesthetic analyses, while others asked participants to view the artworks freely, and in any manner they desired. All the while, repeated brain scans proved that art directly tickles our synapses. Regardless if it’s mesmerizing or polarizing art, we react to it. This is good. This might be what makes us human.

"One of the finds includes the ways in which our brain’s “anterior temporal lobe, which is involved in…higher-order conceptual integration of information in relation to objects (e.g. how does a knife function),” is stimulated through the viewing of art. This essentially means that our own logic regarding how particular objects works enters into dialogue with the logic of the object in question. This directly correlates to art’s influence over thinking."


The fact that electrical signals pass though synapses during music, sex, prayer, visual and audio stimulation is an observation - it's not an explanation for why and how matter like quarks and electrons produce am aesthetic sensibility in humans. It doesn't explain the visceral psychological experience of the sound of a major chord versus the sounds of a minor chord, or the visual sensation and psychological experience of the mediums of complementary or contrasting colors
 
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do you think artists are not just trying to get laid?

like the birds with their shiny things?
Explain at the fundamental level of matter - quarks and electrons - why the sound of a major chord, a minor chord, a dissonant chord create noticeably different psychological experiences in the human mind, and why artists understand that certain color combinations create a harmonious psychological experience in human observers

Explaining how and why these audio and visual sensations produce certain psychological experiences is what a physical materialist should be able to do at the fundamental level of subatomic particles
 
Explain at the fundamental level of matter - quarks and electrons - why the sound of a major chord, a minor chord, a dissonant chord create noticeably different psychological experiences in the human mind, and why artists understand that certain color combinations create a harmonious psychological experience in human observers

Explaining how and why these audio and visual sensations produce certain psychological experiences is what a physical materialist should be able to do at the fundamental level of subatomic particles
hmm.

you sound like a fucking idiot.

on edit.

maybe it's not you, it's just that goal is stupid.

physical materialists are stupid is what I'm thinking I think.
 
Yes, you are No human whose eyes befall that constant of nature can be anything less than completely enthralled. Muslims sometimes mistakenly pray in it's direction.
I like skies, but the best painting are not known to be just blue squares.

you're missing something.

this painting is overpriced and sucks.
 
I don't think you quite understand that the musings of an ancient caveman who was considered a "sage" by other ancient cavemen normally does not merit consideration today.

What makes you think there ever were any "prophets"?
Most of what is read in Laozi, the Dhammapada, the Analects of Confucius are applicable to the human experience today. I learned as much from Daodejing and the Analects as I learned from my college physics textbooks

If you are not interested in it, don't read it. You really don't seem like the reading type anyway.

Alfred White Northhead said all of western philosophy is a series of footnotes to Plato, and it's been said all of western ethics are just footnotes to the Sermon on the Mount.
 
Most of what is read in Laozi, the Dhammapada, the Analects of Confucius are applicable to the human experience today.
That doesn't make "air is good" worthy of discussion. Most of what the ancients considered to be wisdom is just expected common sense today, and does not merit anyone's time.

I learned as much from Daodejing and the Analects as I learned from my college physics textbooks
Next time, actually read the physics textbooks and do the sample problems.

Alfred White Northhead said all of western philosophy is a series of footnotes to Plato, and it's been said all of western ethics are just footnotes to the Sermon on the Mount.
Has Alfred White Northhead contributed to society in any meaningful way?
 
you have no proof and lie all the time.

you're a sick demented poor loser who revels in diarrhea.
No proof you're a racist and antisemite, Fredo? Care to bet on that, son?

Of course you'd say that. You're angry because you know I'm right and because you know the Feds are just waiting for you to step out of line before you end up in Butt-Fuck Prison. You blame me but the reality is that it was the Federal informants and your cowardly militia "friends" who rolled on you, not me.
 
No proof you're a racist and antisemite, Fredo? Care to bet on that, son?

Of course you'd say that. You're angry because you know I'm right and because you know the Feds are just waiting for you to step out of line before you end up in Butt-Fuck Prison. You blame me but the reality is that it was the Federal informants and your cowardly militia "friends" who rolled on you, not me.
you have nothing.

I espouse peace and not even attending demonstrations of any kind.

I only blame your for your own idiocy.
 
It doesn't explain the visceral psychological experience of the sound of a major chord versus the sounds of a minor chord, or the visual sensation and psychological experience of the mediums of complementary or contrasting colors

I am not as troubled by that point as you are. There are properties of complex systems that don't have a real independent existence from the system but arise spontaneously in complex systems. I think the word is "emergent properties" (https://study.com/academy/lesson/em...properties that,the property that is emergent.)

So I'm OK with something arising from things that, individually, would not make the property but the interaction DOES. I assume that is whence the appreciation of the aesthetic arises.

When I go to the art museum and look at the paintings I find I am automatically attracted to or repulsed by some art. It is isn't the same art that would attract or repulse you (so we know there is no "objective" standard independent of you and I). But I tend to feel it automatically. Not after considering the potential metaphors involved and then deciding I like the deeper concept behind the painting, but rather more immediately. Not that I don't appreciate those metaphors and deeper layers, but I have to have some visceral connection to the art.

Over the years I've slowly figured out what it is I like stylistically but I didn't go about developing my stylistic preferences based on rational thought and then applied them. I tend to like higher chroma primary colors, strong contrast-y type art, and usually strong heavy lines.
 
Explaining how and why these audio and visual sensations produce certain psychological experiences is what a physical materialist should be able to do at the fundamental level of subatomic particles

Actually that's incorrect. Emergent Properties arise out of the interaction of complex systems of simpler things.

Here's the Wikipedia definition: "emergence occurs when a complex entity has properties or behaviors that its parts do not have on their own, and emerge only when they interact in a wider whole."

I googled an article here from the Encyclopedia Britannica about emergence in BIOLOGY: https://www.britannica.com/science/emergent-property

And here's an article about Emergence in Computer systems: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/emergent-property

So one doesn't need to explain at the fundamental quark level how aesthetic appreciation arises. There are countless systems we know are quite real and quite physical that manifest these emergent properties spontaneously.
 
I am not as troubled by that point as you are. There are properties of complex systems that don't have a real independent existence from the system but arise spontaneously in complex systems. I think the word is "emergent properties" (https://study.com/academy/lesson/emergent-properties-definition-examples.html#:~:text=Emergent properties are properties that,the property that is emergent.)

So I'm OK with something arising from things that, individually, would not make the property but the interaction DOES. I assume that is whence the appreciation of the aesthetic arises.

When I go to the art museum and look at the paintings I find I am automatically attracted to or repulsed by some art. It is isn't the same art that would attract or repulse you (so we know there is no "objective" standard independent of you and I). But I tend to feel it automatically. Not after considering the potential metaphors involved and then deciding I like the deeper concept behind the painting, but rather more immediately. Not that I don't appreciate those metaphors and deeper layers, but I have to have some visceral connection to the art.

Over the years I've slowly figured out what it is I like stylistically but I didn't go about developing my stylistic preferences based on rational thought and then applied them. I tend to like higher chroma primary colors, strong contrast-y type art, and usually strong heavy lines.
so gay.
 
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