God is not intelligent, or, why I am a pantheist

Cypress said:
Okay, so you don't believe in absolute concepts of right and wrong .
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The concepts of "right" and "wrong" are inherently subjective. If you say that you have objective determinations of right and wrong per some religious belief, then the religious belief becomes the inherently subjective component.

If you say that you have objective determinations of right and wrong per some belief in an invisible, intangible and undefined "moral law" that is imprinted on an invisible, intangible and undefined "human conscience" then your belief in such becomes the subjective component.

Cypress said:
Your moral relativism
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"Moral relativism" is the term used by dishonest failures in logic who are trying to get their own inherently subjective morality somehow accepted as objective and absolute.

Cypress said:
I don't think even Einstein, the father of relativity, thought morals were relative.
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Why do you speculate this?
 
Cypress said:
One reason I like posting a wide spectrum of content from the great thinkers of atheists, religionists, scientists, moral relativists, and moral law objectivists is because it is extremely effective at revealing who is a dogmatic thinker and who is a free thinker
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A free thinker can be dogmatic regarding his thoughts.
 
Margot said:
Jews and Muslims have similar views of Jesus!
Christians it's Jesus was YHWH incarnated!
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But that really only works in one direction. A muslim who fails to see Jesus AS GOD and whose death is all that is necessary for their salvation will NOT be accepted into Christian heaven.

I always felt that the constant insistence by Islam that they honor Jesus kind of missed the point as to what a Christian means by honoring Jesus.
 
Cypress said:
One reason I like posting a wide spectrum of content from the great thinkers of atheists, religionists, scientists, moral relativists, and moral law objectivists is because it is extremely effective at revealing who is a dogmatic thinker and who is a free thinker :)
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That's kind of why I like reading atheists. After a lifetime of reading about faith primarily from a pro-faith point of view it is kind of unsettling and wild to see someone come along and dare to say "Yeah, no. That's not necessarily right".

When I first read Sam Harris's first book it was shocking, but hit pretty powerfully.

Extending the metaphor a bit I call this the "Power of Blasphemy". Blasphemy is really the ultimate superpower. Those of us raised in a given religion know that even the THOUGHT of something blasphemous is considered evil and bad. But really that's just repackaged "thoughtcrime" which isn't real. It IS possible to think and say blasphemous things and nothing bad happens from on high.

It is freeing to know that the fears from thinking the wrong thing are wholly imaginary!

Not all religious people get that hung up on it but some of us who suffer from things like scrupulosity it's an amazingly freeing feeling to see others brave enough to say "The emperor has no clothes".

Sometimes it's too much and too far, but it still shines a light in a corner that doesn't usually get any light at all.
 
Daylight63 said:
That's kind of why I like reading atheists. After a lifetime of reading about faith primarily from a pro-faith point of view it is kind of unsettling and wild to see someone come along and dare to say "Yeah, no. That's not necessarily right".

When I first read Sam Harris's first book it was shocking, but hit pretty powerfully.

Extending the metaphor a bit I call this the "Power of Blasphemy". Blasphemy is really the ultimate superpower. Those of us raised in a given religion know that even the THOUGHT of something blasphemous is considered evil and bad. But really that's just repackaged "thoughtcrime" which isn't real. It IS possible to think and say blasphemous things and nothing bad happens from on high.

It is freeing to know that the fears from thinking the wrong thing are wholly imaginary!

Not all religious people get that hung up on it but some of us who suffer from things like scrupulosity it's an amazingly freeing feeling to see others brave enough to say "The emperor has no clothes".

Sometimes it's too much and too far, but it still shines a light in a corner that doesn't usually get any light at all.
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No. There will be repercussions and you're fucking up.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
By mutual consent, not by genetics or other innate knowledge.

Not for long.

Disagreed.

Nice fantasy.

A not so nice fantasy but I understand why you believe it.
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it's by a combination of evolved social behavior and an innate intelligence that can see how evolved ingroup systems can be used to great benefit in other contexts.

peace is, in fact, more rational than war.

your job is just killing so you have peverted your soul to support your dark master.

you're spiritually dark and you seek to actually devolve humanity with your evil nihilist precepts.

basically, you're a shit human being at this point.

but you are smart enough to reform and choose good,.

there is forgiveness. there is compassion. there is redemption.

but you must choose it.
 
Daylight63 said:
That's kind of why I like reading atheists. After a lifetime of reading about faith primarily from a pro-faith point of view it is kind of unsettling and wild to see someone come along and dare to say "Yeah, no. That's not necessarily right".

When I first read Sam Harris's first book it was shocking, but hit pretty powerfully.

Extending the metaphor a bit I call this the "Power of Blasphemy". Blasphemy is really the ultimate superpower. Those of us raised in a given religion know that even the THOUGHT of something blasphemous is considered evil and bad. But really that's just repackaged "thoughtcrime" which isn't real. It IS possible to think and say blasphemous things and nothing bad happens from on high.

It is freeing to know that the fears from thinking the wrong thing are wholly imaginary!

Not all religious people get that hung up on it but some of us who suffer from things like scrupulosity it's an amazingly freeing feeling to see others brave enough to say "The emperor has no clothes".

Sometimes it's too much and too far, but it still shines a light in a corner that doesn't usually get any light at all.
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I don't like dogmatic thinking, whether it's Protestant biblical literalism, or whether it's Soviet scientific atheism.


I'm currently reading both The Language of God by Francis Collins, a preeminent geneticist and practicing Christian, and The God Delusion by biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins..
 
Daylight63 said:
That's kind of why I like reading atheists. After a lifetime of reading about faith primarily from a pro-faith point of view it is kind of unsettling and wild to see someone come along and dare to say "Yeah, no. That's not necessarily right".

When I first read Sam Harris's first book it was shocking, but hit pretty powerfully.

Extending the metaphor a bit I call this the "Power of Blasphemy". Blasphemy is really the ultimate superpower. Those of us raised in a given religion know that even the THOUGHT of something blasphemous is considered evil and bad. But really that's just repackaged "thoughtcrime" which isn't real. It IS possible to think and say blasphemous things and nothing bad happens from on high.

It is freeing to know that the fears from thinking the wrong thing are wholly imaginary!

Not all religious people get that hung up on it but some of us who suffer from things like scrupulosity it's an amazingly freeing feeling to see others brave enough to say "The emperor has no clothes".

Sometimes it's too much and too far, but it still shines a light in a corner that doesn't usually get any light at all.
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and your religion is internationalist Keynesian fascism.
 
IBDaMann said:
A free thinker can be dogmatic regarding his thoughts.
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I still can't stop laughing that you were so deeply impressed by the content, syntax, and organization of my posts you imagined they could only be the creation of Artificial Intelligence, Wikipedia editors, and sophisticated software programs :laugh:
 
Cypress said:
I don't like dogmatic thinking, whether it's Protestant biblical literalism, or whether it's Soviet scientific atheism.
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I agree. But it's also fun to see both sides. I feel that in our society atheism is always kind of kept in the shadows. Maybe these writers are an overcorrection but it still helps.

Cypress said:
I'm currently reading both The Language of God by Francis Collins,
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That might be an interesting read.

 
Cypress said:
I don't like dogmatic thinking, whether it's Protestant biblical literalism, or whether it's Soviet scientific atheism.


I'm currently reading both The Language of God by Francis Collins, a preeminent geneticist and practicing Christian, and The God Delusion by biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins..
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hmmm.

can you sum them up?
 
Daylight63 said:
Perhaps this isn't the conversation for you then. I think people here are more interested in discussing the topic FREE of any religious zealot's demands.
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I'm actually the biggest proponent of morality being rational, if you bother to fucking read, dumbass.
 
Lao Tse said:
hmmm.

can you sum them up?
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I've only had Collins for a week and I just got Dawkins yesterday. So the following is very impressionistic.


Collins: you can see the language of God in the physical principles of the universe, in the intricate genetic code of molecular biology, and in the moral law imprinted our conscience.

Dawkins: all human culture, behavior, and morality can be physically reduced to just physics and chemistry. There is no ultimate purpose or meaning to anything. The universe is utterly materialistic.
 
Cypress said:
I've only had Collins for a week and I just got Dawkins yesterday. So the following is very impressionistic.


Collins: you can see the language of God in the physical principles of the universe, in the intricate genetic code of molecular biology, and in the moral law imprinted our conscience.

Dawkins: all human culture, behavior, and morality can be physically reduced to just physics and chemistry. There is no ultimate purpose or meaning to anything. The universe is utterly materialistic.
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In the case of Collins I would want to know what are the specifics of the moral law imprinted in our hearts. is it a glittering generality?

and for Dawkins I would agree, seems reductionist......lol.
 
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