God is not intelligent, or, why I am a pantheist

Hume said:
Who cares if Nazis were wrong or we just have the opinion they were wrong. No difference.
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I'm not a moral relativist, which is what you are if you cannot say the Nazis were objectively wrong and their actions violated absolute concepts of right and wrong.
 
Cypress said:
One has to believe Christ was miraculously resurrected from the dead to be a Christian. I think a miraculous resurrection is unlikely.
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So you have your doubts! That's more honest than the many Christians that assume what organized religion told them to believe, so they do,without ever thinking about it.
Cypress said:
I'm not a moral relativist, which is what you are if you cannot say the Nazis were objectively wrong and their actions violated absolute concepts of right and wrong.
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But , the thing is ,being wrong as wrong ,in some situations, they were wrong but legal!
Take the case of the Frank family,they were arrested as criminals for hiding from the legal authorities ,the Nazis!
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed in part. I think many JPP MAGAts support his infidelity as a "man's right" and that it's women who have to be loyal. This is demonstrated by their hatred of "feminazis" and women's rights to their own bodies. Same goes for their racism: white man's rights over everyone else's.

I prefer the term "mutually agreed upon standards of decency" over "universal" since universal connotates genetics or even extraterrestrial civilizations.

I can see why Stalin's murder of 39M Russians through famine and force would be frowned upon by even staunch communists.
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ok.

so who promotes population reduction?
 
Hume said:
I think you are an idiot.
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Sometimes it's hard to do what we know, in our hearts, is the right thing. I think the real magic of "human morality" is the need to explain why an in-built instinct is a good idea to follow. But it makes PERFECT sense. Humans are unique in our ability to think about alternative futures and the most likely future given a specific set of actions. So, unlike the wolf who instinctually cares for the fallen mate, WE CAN ACTUALLY IMAGINE NOT HELPING THE FALLEN MATE. We can imagine a world where we would do the OPPOSITE of what our instinct is.

So we need moral teachers to try to figure out a way to convince us there is a reason to follow the in-built instinct or at least a reason to expect possible punishment for going against the instinct.

And I'm not saying the moral philosophers really knew this is what they were doing, but rather found a gap in our knowledge and tried to fill it. And even among them there is disagreement over the "why", so we wind up with differing interpretations of morality. All the while we all generally agree on the biggies like the ones @Cypress mentioned: murder bad, stealing bad, fidelity good, etc.
 
Margot said:
So you have your doubts! That's more honest than the many Christians that assume what organized religion told them to believe, so they do,without ever thinking about it.
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I have thought about the documentary evidence and it seems to me the eyewitness apostles genuinely believed they saw Jesus after the crucifixion, but I have at least four hypotheses for why that should be the case.
Margot said:
But , the thing is ,being wrong as wrong ,in some situations, they were wrong but legal!
Take the case of the Frank family,they were arrested as criminals for hiding from the legal authorities ,the Nazis!
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At least since Sophocles, most people generally think the moral law supercedes the human law. That is precisely why at Nuremberg the Nazi defendants were not allowed to appeal to German law as a defense
 
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Cypress said:
I have thought about the documentary evidence and it seems to me the eyewitness apostles genuinely believed they saw Jesus after the crucifixion, but I have at least four hypotheses for why that should be the case.

At least since Sophocles, most people generally think the moral law supercedes the human law. That is precisely why at Nuremberg the Nazi defendants were not allowed to appeal to German law as a defense
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Look, you are a Christian. No need to keep lying.
 
Hume said:
Look, you are a Christian. No need to keep lying.
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Jesus, Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar are the three most important people in the history of western civilization - hands down.

Explain why somebody who respects historical knowledge wouldn't think about these people
 
Cypress said:
I have thought about the documentary evidence and it seems to me the eyewitness apostles genuinely believed they saw Jesus after the crucifixion, but I have at least four hypotheses for why that should be the case.

At least since Sophocles, most people generally think the moral law supercedes the human law. That is precisely why at Nuremberg the Nazi defendants were not allowed to appeal to German law as a defense
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Moral law should supersede man's law
 
Cypress said:
One has to believe Christ was miraculously resurrected from the dead to be a Christian. I think a miraculous resurrection is unlikely.
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A slight disagreement. After the Crucifixion, there were a lot of variations of belief. Specifically revolving around the divinity of Jesus, his relation to God and what it all meant. Lots of blood was spilled in these disputes.

IMO, a Christian follows the teachings of Jesus, as distorted as some of those teachings might be from a carefully edited book designed to create a new religion. It doesn't mean one has to accept the divinity of Jesus or that the only path to the mountain top is by accepting Christ as one's lord and savior.
 
Cypress said:
Jesus, Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar are the three most important people in the history of western civilization - hands down.

Explain why somebody who respects historical knowledge wouldn't think about these people
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Not everyone agrees with your list: https://historycollection.com/40-of-the-most-influential-people-of-all-time/ :D

Clueless people often speak out of their ass from ignorance. I respect you because you have more patience with them. Are you are father, Cypress? I ask because it came up with my siblings several years ago when dealing with our father; the two with children were a lot more likely to "let it go" than the two without, my youngest sister and myself, who were likely to call him on his bullshit.
 
Lao Tse said:
nobody said it was genetic.

but I do think shit-hole nations know they suck.
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If you understood the thread, Fredo, you would know.

It depends. There are kids in shit hole nations happily playing in mud puddles because they don't know any better. The main reason for the Arab Spring was Internet Cafes which provided a window to the world. They saw what they had and what others had so they wanted something better. In Buddhism, the Four Noble Truths deal with desire and wanting. A person can't want what they don't know exists. The whole concept behind "ignorance is bliss".
 
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