God is not intelligent, or, why I am a pantheist

[Lao Tse]

In the struggle for survival and in accordance with natural laws, conflict and violence are rational at some level.

No one bats an eye when a male lion kills the cubs of a rival, a leopard takes over the territory of a female and her cubs, or chimpanzees kill intruders from a rival chimp group.

Animals understand perfectly the reasons for conflict, and even the need for inflicting harm on rivals or taking their territory.


The type of Christian pacifism preached by Jesus is irrational compared to the natural order of things.

but at a higher more rational level, conflict and war are stupid and only profit the war profiteers.

that;s why you're here perverting morality.

you're a sick war machine fuck.

 

[Daylight63]

In the struggle for survival and in accordance with natural laws, conflict and violence are rational at some level.

As is cooperation and care for each other.

 

[Lao Tse]

As is cooperation and care for each other.

these war profiteers are literally enemies of peace.

it's so very evil.

 

[Cypress]

But animals often care for members of their group who are injured.

That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

I cited examples of humans risking their lives and their welfare to help complete strangers. Not family members, not friends, not second cousins.

Evolutionary biology can explain altruism among extended family, and cooperation with one's pack.

 

[Cypress]

but at a higher more rational level, conflict and war are stupid and only profit the war profiteers.

that;s why you're here perverting morality.

you're a sick war machine fuck.

Slogans and platitudes are not an argument.

Either humans are just part of the animal world and nothing particularly special, or we are utterly unique in morals and conscience.

Pick one.

The rational response to the Black Plague was to light out and sprint for the countryside, if you could. At least according to the laws of nature and survival. That is exactly what a lot of people did. Animals will instinctively understand to avoid the seriously diseased. That is a law of nature

The irrational response would be to risk your life to tend to complete strangers in their death throes. Which is what some exceptional priests, deacons, and doctors did. I think the model to emulate was Jesus tending to the lepers.

 

[Daylight63]

That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

But you said that it is natural for one to avoid the sick. I'm just pointing out how animals don't always do that.

I cited examples of humans risking their lives and their welfare to help complete strangers. Not family members, not friends, not second cousins.

That's why I mentioned the inside and outside of the clan. I think, however, that humans have some special ability to generalize and recognize that another human, even if they are not in our tribe, may be in need of help and since we know that it is quite common in nature for some animals who haven't had the benefit of the teachings of the moral philosophers to care for the injured that this isn't that strange.

Evolutionary biology can explain altruism among extended family, and cooperation with one's pack.

How does that operate. I assume there must be some evolutionary aspect to it, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Daylight63]

Either humans are just part of the animal world and nothing particularly special, or we are utterly unique in morals and conscience.

Maybe we're both.

 

[IBDaMann]

God is not intelligent.

... at least you acknowledge His existence. I haven't been able to get even that far.

Or rather, God is not an intelligence. The distinction is significant. God is an abstraction, and a mystery.

You hit upon a key problem that I also noticed. If God is so smart, why can't he design an ark with more than one window? ... and why was He using cubits when standard units are truly so much better? ... and why turn water into wine when He could have turned it into Viejo de Caldas?

There are just too many unanswered questions.

... there is a spiritual basis to life, that there is spirituality permeating all things

What spirituality is permeating from a bar of Irish Spring?

... and this divine source is not an intelligence. It is just source, a spiritual source sans intelligence.

Maybe you just got some defective ones. Check the warranties.

The simplest definition of Pantheism is that it is the belief that God is not a separate, personal being, but rather that God and the universe are the same. In this view, everything in the natural world is a part of God, and God is present in all things.

Into the Night was just telling me that what you are describing is the correct Christian view. I think we should pull him into this discussion and find out why you are hijacking Christianity and calling it Pantheism.

I have taken this idea and put my own stamp on it,

So, you are hijacking Christianity and Creationism. Are you going to call it "Permeating Design"?

and for lack of a better term, pantheism is much closer to how I see the world, on a spiritual plane, than anything else. ,

You could just adopt Into the Night's version of Christianity and get the same results ... and it would be much quicker and easier, and you wouldn't have to make any separate posts to explain yourself.

Always remember, to a pantheist, his 'God' is not a personal God, or a God in any sense of it's traditional and historical definition, mono or poly. It is more of a non falsifiable force that permeates all things, more or less.

So you believe in The Force. How does your The Force differ from the Christian God?

My God is not theistic nor deistic,

Yes it is. Your God of The Force is supernatural which makes it theistic.

it is more on the Einsteinian pantheistic model.

Nope. Einstein used the term "God" euphemistically to refer to "the forces of nature" ... all of which he sought to express scientifically. Your God of the Force is unfalsifiable and cannot have any science modeling it.

It does not intervene or answer prayers,

... as far as you are aware, although it might have answered some of your prayers without you knowing it.

... in my view, true prayer is meditation and meditation is the fastest path to God.

... but untrue prayer still gets the job done, right?

... our natural heritage and all souls, like bubbles in in the ocean, are bubbling upward and will eventually reach the sky, it is inevitable.

What about those of us who have no natural heritage, and who only have unnatural heritage? I don't think we'll ever bubble upward.

 

[IBDaMann]

Maybe we're both.

Maybe dolphins actually run everything.

 

[Hume]

That's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard anyone respond to the "Golden Rule" like that. It feels far more intuitive to me.

Intuitive does not mean true.