Going out of town for the holiday's

BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMUNIST!! Cuba is a Communist country! China is almost a communist country! If China didn't have private companies and the government owned them all then they would be 100% Communist! Socialism is the transition phase to Communism! God I fucking hate repeating myself to a clueless bonehead like you! And at least there's something to work with to make a country be one way or the other. You have shit! Once again look at Venezuela. They're becoming a socialist country if that is what the people want. And because those country's weren't socialists!!! God!

Damocles said:
Same here.

Look. She and I have been round and round about this. She keeps calling socialist nations "communist" so she can claim socialism never failed. I keep pointing out that it has. Your comprehension issue notwithstanding, it is a consistent theme in conversations between her and myself.

One more time, present me with evidence of a failed libertarian system that I am pretending doesn't exist, or shut up. Your point was that I make some sort of "same claim". Except my point was they claim failed socialist systems were not "socialist". So, put up or shut up.
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Repeat this after me: socalism is the transitition phase to communism.

Do you get it now? If you don't fucking get still go here: http://cpusa.org/article/archive/129/

Why don't you try reading instead of staying in your fucking ignorance and your holier than thou shit? You don't have a damn clue what you're talking about Damocles and if you want to learn then here is how you can. Go to the source and read from it. I don't know about you but if someone keeps saying over and over to me again that I'm ignorant on something I would want to fucking read from the source and learn about it. Maybe you should try it. Don't talk to me about socialism and communism until you do that because I'm sick to death of repeating myself to your thick head. Maybe I should give you BB's nick name. Seems you need it more then he does.

Damocles said:
No my stance was that socialism is failure personified and they constantly try to rename it "communist" and pretend that it hasn't failed. So, either present us with a libertarian society that I have pretended wasn't libertarian that has failed or admit you are crappy at analogy.
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Because the democratic socialists are more like the old FDR "new deal" type of democrats. They seem to be pretty much dead now days in a manner of speaking. The Democrats here in the States are too moderate/conservative. If there were more Dennis Kucinich's and Ted Kennedy's and even John Kerry's for the most part than I'd agree with you but that isn't the case.

Watermark said:
Democratic socialists rarely call for complete nationalization of industry.

That doesn't mean the USSR, CHina, and Cuba aren't socialist. The parties in those nations are called the "communist party", but that's because communism is the goal. In all of the literature in reference to the state itself, they refer to the state as socialist.

Democratic socialist seem to think that moderate socialization is the goal in itself, and don't want anything beyond that. I don't see why they don't just call themselves social Democrats and get it over with.
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Well you might wanna tell that to the Communist party in Cuba and Castro.... And you might want to look at the differences of communism and socialism. You need to read this too Beefy- http://cpusa.org/article/archive/129/

Beefy said:
They consider themselves Socialist. In fact, there's propoganda billboards all over the place there proclaiming "Socialismo! Somos todo o nosotros no son nada!" They're everywhere, but nary a one proclaiming anything about Communism. I'll let them decide what they are, rather than some nameless, faceless poster on the internets.


And uscitizen, stop being so deliberately obtuse.
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Please don't claim to know what I do and don't do k? That's ignorant and arrogant. If you're trying to play psychic then you suck at it. Stick to your day job k? And I've only been a socialist for the past few months after being a liberal. Being a liberal didn't feel right at all to me. I've been learning, reading and talking a lot with other socialists and communists and just really still figuring out where I belong. For right now however I'm a socialist so I guess you can say I'm in my own transition phase. However I don't believe in a free market but I believe in a fair market where everyone gets to trade with everyone else and nobody is left out and people should at least be given a chance to buy goods from places. A good book to pick up is "Take this job and ship it" from Senator Bryon Drogan. He's a democrat and is very into the whole fair market thing. So please don't you ever claim to speak for me or anything. You still know shit about me k? I don't do that to you so show me the same respect if you can. And thank you all for ruining yet again another thread that was supposed to be a simple note to the community telling how I was going out of town for the holiday's. God I get sick of this shit everywhere I damn well go. Start a huge thread on it and get it over with. God.

Watermark said:
She really doesn't listen to us at all, does she? I know what she's talking about. But to try to completely dissacociate the concepts is idiotic. There are many forms of each, and she just happens to take on the form that most people who label themselves "Democratic socialists" take on. And "Democratic socialists", IMHO, aren't even really socialists anyway, since they believe in a free market and don't see Marxist communism as an eventual goal. They're closer to extreme social democrats than to most strains of socialism. Same thing with the Eurocommunists.
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SouthernBelle82 said:
Well you might wanna tell that to the Communist party in Cuba and Castro.... And you might want to look at the differences of communism and socialism. You need to read this too Beefy- http://cpusa.org/article/archive/129/
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Interesting, but it doesn't account for the vast inhumane and destructive nature of your belief system once put in practice. The Republicans were defeated in 2006, but it didn't take idealism to do it.

SouthernBelle, I can truly appreciate your conviction and idealism, but your system, when applied, leads to mass oppression and total poverty at best, and massacre at worst. It is completely anti human nature, and anytime someone forces a belief system on a populace, the populace will suffer.


Live and let live, really.
 
Well not socialism. Look at Venezuela for an example. I'm not saying they're perfect but they're doing pretty good. I wouldn't even wish my worst enemy (not that I really have them...) to live in China or Cuba. However though look at the general ideals and beliefs and not the actions. The republicans were defeated in 2006 because of idealism: people were tired of their crap and voted them out. Sadly not enough though. :(

Beefy said:
Interesting, but it doesn't account for the vast inhumane and destructive nature of your belief system once put in practice. The Republicans were defeated in 2006, but it didn't take idealism to do it.

SouthernBelle, I can truly appreciate your conviction and idealism, but your system, when applied, leads to mass oppression and total poverty at best, and massacre at worst. It is completely anti human nature, and anytime someone forces a belief system on a populace, the populace will suffer.


Live and let live, really.
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SouthernBelle82 said:
Well not socialism. Look at Venezuela for an example. I'm not saying they're perfect but they're doing pretty good. I wouldn't even wish my worst enemy (not that I really have them...) to live in China or Cuba. However though look at the general ideals and beliefs and not the actions. The republicans were defeated in 2006 because of idealism: people were tired of their crap and voted them out. Sadly not enough though. :(
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Why has every system that has tried to implement socialism from the ground up, ended in oppression? Venezuela is not a great place to live. If its so great, why does it look like such a shit box?
 
SouthernBelle82 said:
Please don't claim to know what I do and don't do k? That's ignorant and arrogant. If you're trying to play psychic then you suck at it. Stick to your day job k? And I've only been a socialist for the past few months after being a liberal. Being a liberal didn't feel right at all to me. I've been learning, reading and talking a lot with other socialists and communists and just really still figuring out where I belong. For right now however I'm a socialist so I guess you can say I'm in my own transition phase. However I don't believe in a free market but I believe in a fair market where everyone gets to trade with everyone else and nobody is left out and people should at least be given a chance to buy goods from places. A good book to pick up is "Take this job and ship it" from Senator Bryon Drogan. He's a democrat and is very into the whole fair market thing. So please don't you ever claim to speak for me or anything. You still know shit about me k? I don't do that to you so show me the same respect if you can. And thank you all for ruining yet again another thread that was supposed to be a simple note to the community telling how I was going out of town for the holiday's. God I get sick of this shit everywhere I damn well go. Start a huge thread on it and get it over with. God.
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I didn't speak for you. I just know everything you claim to know about this and your claims just aren't that surprising. It's an echo of the modern socialists who really don't know much about their history and have tried to distance themselves from the communists. They tried to draw sharp distinction between the two words that had never really existed before. You're the person with the blinders on. You ignore every point we bring, and do nothing but repeat your same lines. It's kind of annoying.

If you'd say "Democratic socialism is different than communism and most other forms of socialism"... that would be more accurate.
 
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Beefy said:
Interesting, but it doesn't account for the vast inhumane and destructive nature of your belief system once put in practice. The Republicans were defeated in 2006, but it didn't take idealism to do it.

SouthernBelle, I can truly appreciate your conviction and idealism, but your system, when applied, leads to mass oppression and total poverty at best, and massacre at worst. It is completely anti human nature, and anytime someone forces a belief system on a populace, the populace will suffer.


Live and let live, really.
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Beefy, there are democratic socialist parties that currently rule in several European countries. It hasn't ended in oppression and total poverty.
 
SouthernBelle82 said:
Uhm no. Socialism is the transition to Communism. C'mon now seriously. How many times do I have to repeat myself?
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The same amount of times I have to as well. The reality is that it is imperfect collectivism and is therefore socialist by that definition. You don't "want" it to be, but it is regardless.
 
Watermark said:
Beefy, there are democratic socialist parties that currently rule in several European countries. It hasn't ended in oppression and total poverty.
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Democratic Socialism is different than simply socialism. This was one of the points of people on the board. What you propound is Democratic Socialism, not Socialism.
 
Gee how about before Hugo Chavez became president they had president's who did the Bush economic policy's? Look at our country. And we're not even socialists are we?

Beefy said:
Why has every system that has tried to implement socialism from the ground up, ended in oppression? Venezuela is not a great place to live. If its so great, why does it look like such a shit box?
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Gee let's see here: a libertarian or a socialist talking about socialism? Who should I go with? Oh I know how about the socialist's! Crazy of me I know... :rolleyes:

Damocles said:
The same amount of times I have to as well. The reality is that it is imperfect collectivism and is therefore socialist by that definition. You don't "want" it to be, but it is regardless.
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Gee I kinda missed it when you kept saying "she" everywhere in the thread. Don't you ever claim to know everything that someone thinks etc. Again that's arrogant and ignorant. You haven't even spoken to me for very long much less know me. So get off it. And once again socialism is the transition phase to communism. Good freakin grief. How can you distant yourself from something you're transitioning to? Me with my blinders on? LOL! Now that's hilarious. You are the one who knows shit about what you're talking about. I'm an actual socialist and involved with other socialists and even other communists. :rolleyes:

Watermark said:
I didn't speak for you. I just know everything you claim to know about this and your claims just aren't that surprising. It's an echo of the modern socialists who really don't know much about their history and have tried to distance themselves from the communists. They tried to draw sharp distinction between the two words that had never really existed before. You're the person with the blinders on. You ignore every point we bring, and do nothing but repeat your same lines. It's kind of annoying.

If you'd say "Democratic socialism is different than communism and most other forms of socialism"... that would be more accurate.
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