GOP: What Government Services are Still Government Services?
- Thread starter Timshel
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PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
that is the entire point, and until you realize it you will incapable of understanding why SS is not a government service....no one pays into a "welfare fund" to provide their benefits for their eventual going on welfare.....this makes it different from SS....likewise with the printing of currency or TSA screening.....the simple truth is payroll taxes are different from general revenue and you need to acknowledge that and move on.....
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Well, first of all, there are a myriad of "social entitlement programs" paid for with Medicare and Social Security funds. Our Social Security for retiring seniors should be just that, and nothing else. Medicare should be medical care for senior citizens receiving Social Security benefits, and nothing else. Medicaid should be funding medical care for the poor, as it was established to do. All other programs which utilize Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid funds, need to be scrutinized and evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and either eliminated entirely, in some cases, or a set funding rate established with increases based on the GDP, if we're going to keep it.
Next, foreign aid... Whatever isn't going to our NATO allies, or otherwise pursuant to some commitment or treaty, needs to be eliminated.
Next... Federal redundancy, like having a Department of Education. These things are best handled on a state basis, whereby the feds may issue a block grant, but have no need to fund and staff an entire federal department. Many Federal agencies can be completely eliminated and operated by states, reducing the cost to the federal taxpayer. Wherever this can be done, it should be done.
Next... Federal streamlining. Departments within the federal government which are redundant, should be eliminated or consolidated for better efficiency. We have layer upon layer of bureaucracy at the Federal level, departments to oversee other departments, etc.
Next.. Defense. Yes. Defense. Because of the slow and cumbersome nature of our bureaucratic government, along with the rapid pace of computerized technology, we have become stone-footed. We have current military weapons programs on the production line that are already obsolete by 5 years. We can't plan and develop fast enough to keep up with the speed of technological advancement, so we have to stop trying, we're simply squandering resources on developing obsolete weaponry. Cut most all defense contracts to bare minimums, and focus on streamlining our entire military for better efficiency and faster deployment of projects.
If we do those things, and we do some other things to stimulate economic GROWTH instead of decline or stagnation, then we can start paying off the national debt.
Why isn't SS a government SERVICE.
The point is you are a wimp? Okay, I will accept that one.
You are just spinning over things you have already been tripped up on in order to evade your obvious error.
TSA screening is financed by fees to passengers, airports and airlines. YOU originally claimed those things were different than SS. Now you are going back and claiming they are the same.
So welfare for the poor and the military are the only government SERVICES. Again, what is your definition? It is not the one I gave.
The point is you are a wimp? Okay, I will accept that one.
You are just spinning over things you have already been tripped up on in order to evade your obvious error.
TSA screening is financed by fees to passengers, airports and airlines. YOU originally claimed those things were different than SS. Now you are going back and claiming they are the same.
So welfare for the poor and the military are the only government SERVICES. Again, what is your definition? It is not the one I gave.
And here is a reminder of your earlier spin...
I asked...
You answered...
So those ARE government services even though benefits are financed with fees charged to beneficiaries. But SS is not a government service because it is financed out fees charged to beneficiaries. Welfare is a government service because welfare is not financed with fees charged to beneficiaries.
This as clear as mud. You are clearly not concerned with truth. You have nothing of value to offer. Next time, pack me a lunch.
I asked...
You answered...
So those ARE government services even though benefits are financed with fees charged to beneficiaries. But SS is not a government service because it is financed out fees charged to beneficiaries. Welfare is a government service because welfare is not financed with fees charged to beneficiaries.
This as clear as mud. You are clearly not concerned with truth. You have nothing of value to offer. Next time, pack me a lunch.
Liberty
Libertarian Minded
Gee; I can't wait until we're asking, "why does some gov't public union worker have to come in and wipe my ass everytime I crap".
But that's just me.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I find it hard to believe you are incapable of reading my posts.....therefore I can only assume you choose not to read them....in that you share a lot with Legion.....if you want to know the answers to the questions you ask here, simply reread the posts I made in answer to them the first time you raised them.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
in summary, income taxes are still the primary source of the revenue that provides government services.....
hazlnut
Verified User
Who needs studies to prove Conservatives are less educated and lack critical thinking skills?
Just go to any political discussion forum and read posts like the one above...
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I'm sorry....which part were you too thick to understand.....did you think it WAS part of general revenue?.....
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Education and critical thinking skills are apparently overrated if you are the example!
SS is determined by what you paid into it, they even send you a notification now and again, to let you know what your benefits will be. This is not funded from the General Budget, it never has been. This means it is NOT an entitlement program. You have FAILED, pinhead. This MUST be familiar to you by now! ...You know, like that warm lumpy feeling you sometimes get in the seat of your underwear?
In summary, you still have not provided a source for your assertion, contradicted your argument that social security is not a government service and have shown yourself to be an intellectual lightweight and a coward.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
His source is common fucking sense if you mean about federal income tax being the feds main source of revenue. You've not offered any other source that tops it, therefore his assertion is absolutely valid and irrefutable. You can also play 'semantics' all day, it doesn't change the fact that Social Security is not a government 'service' or 'entitlement' as you claim. The intellectual lightweight in this particular conversation is the idiot who keeps claiming victory without producing anything to refute the points made. (Your continued boasting isn't refuting the points made, by the way.)
Of course, if we want to become extremely obtuse and philosophical, every single thing the government ever does, can be deemed "an entitlement" because they provided it to citizenry who were entitled to it. The military protecting us, is an entitlement... The EPA is an entitlement... trade regulations are entitlements... presidential vacations are entitlements... on and on. But when most thinking and rational people discuss actual "entitlement programs" these things are NOT what they are talking about.
PMP has, clearly, made a fool of himself now he sends you in to help? lol
That was not his assertion.
He made the assertion.
Social Security is a government service as the SSA and anyone who is not playing semantic games claims.
I have tripped up pmp until he can either say there is no such thing as a "government SERVICE" or SS is one. There is no other out for him. But you can play.
The SSA is a government agency, right? It provides a service (the distribution of various benefits), right?
Why are all the other things you complain about examples of "government service" and SS is not?
Why do you think it matters?
You are just being obtuse, again.
http://www.heritage.org/initiatives/entitlements
But okay. It does not change anything. It does not answer why you seem to think SS/Medicare are somehow not government services/programs/agencies whatever newspeak phrase you want to use. I know... they are government 1/3s. Does that work for you? Why is SS different that the other government 1/3s.
That was not his assertion.
He made the assertion.
Social Security is a government service as the SSA and anyone who is not playing semantic games claims.
I have tripped up pmp until he can either say there is no such thing as a "government SERVICE" or SS is one. There is no other out for him. But you can play.
The SSA is a government agency, right? It provides a service (the distribution of various benefits), right?
Why are all the other things you complain about examples of "government service" and SS is not?
Why do you think it matters?
You are just being obtuse, again.
http://www.heritage.org/initiatives/entitlements
But okay. It does not change anything. It does not answer why you seem to think SS/Medicare are somehow not government services/programs/agencies whatever newspeak phrase you want to use. I know... they are government 1/3s. Does that work for you? Why is SS different that the other government 1/3s.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
He has not made a fool of himself, you continue to make this claim in hopes of hooting him down with your ability to boast. It's not working for anyone who can read the thread. You've been thoroughly PWNED by virtually everyone.
Yes it was, again... we can read the thread.
And you haven't refuted it.
"Service" is a tricky word, it doesn't necessarily indicate "entitlement." You've moved the goal posts. The Defense Department is also, technically, a "service" ...is that an "entitlement program" too, in your opinion?
No, again, you simply haven't tripped up anyone, and you've not disputed the points made. You can keep patting yourself on the back for this, and I am sure your chortling pinhead buddies will laud you with 'thanks' and make you feel warm and fuzzy about it, but you've just not refuted a thing that has been presented here.
The SSA does administer benefits. That doesn't mean it's a government entitlement program. It's not funded out of the General Budget, there is no budgetary cut that can be made to Social Security. When people talk of budget cuts, they aren't discussing Social Security, it is paid for out of a different pile of money than the budget.
Because SS isn't a government entitlement program, and isn't part of the general budget or discretionary spending.
Because when we're talking about "balancing the budget" or "cutting spending" we aren't talking about Social Security.
How so? I am stating the TRUTH!
Great link! Great information regarding any conversation about cutting the federal budget! Not a damn thing about SS or it being an "entitlement" but still... nice link! Thanks!
Because it isn't a General Budget item, it's not discretionary spending, and we can't "cut" it and reduce the deficit. We HAVE borrowed money from the trust fund, and we'll have to repay that money from the General Budget, but again... we can't "cut" that, it's non-discretionary, so it's off the table when we discuss ways to reduce the deficit. It's like the interest on the national debt... another item we can't "cut" in order to balance our budget.
Now I don't really know what your dysfunction is, whether you're just mentally stupid when it comes to federal finances and budgets, or you've ignorantly presumed something that isn't true, but you really do need to educate yourself better on this subject. It's pitiful to see you parade around here acting like a goofball, claiming 'victory' when you've not made a point or refuted one.
Yeah, not going to get into your ridiculous parsing games.
It was not his assertion. I did not refute it or even claim to. I asked for a source, fool!
Yeah, "service" is a tricky word for you. You are the one now trying to split hairs over "entitlement." Your semantic games are STUPID. But hertiage.org includes ss and Medicare in entitlements. Left wingers?
It has nothing to do with budget. We were discussing the percentage of government services paid for by various forms of taxes. You are moving the goal post or rather trying to set them back up. I tore em down in victory long ago after I made your buddy look like the fool that he is.
It was not his assertion. I did not refute it or even claim to. I asked for a source, fool!
Yeah, "service" is a tricky word for you. You are the one now trying to split hairs over "entitlement." Your semantic games are STUPID. But hertiage.org includes ss and Medicare in entitlements. Left wingers?
It has nothing to do with budget. We were discussing the percentage of government services paid for by various forms of taxes. You are moving the goal post or rather trying to set them back up. I tore em down in victory long ago after I made your buddy look like the fool that he is.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Yeah, not going to get into your ridiculous parsing games.
It was not his assertion. I did not refute it or even claim to. I asked for a source, fool!
Yeah, "service" is a tricky word for you. You are the one now trying to split hairs over "entitlement." Your semantic games are STUPID. But hertiage.org includes ss and Medicare in entitlements. Left wingers?
It has nothing to do with budget. We were discussing the percentage of government services paid for by various forms of taxes. You are moving the goal post or rather trying to set them back up. I tore em down in victory long ago after I made your buddy look like the fool that he is.
Well, Social Security is paid for from a specific SSI tax on your paycheck. It has nothing to do with Federal Income Tax or the General Federal Budget. It's NOT a "government service" unless you want to be obtuse and refuse to accept context. If we are going to be obtuse and refuse to accept context, then every fucking thing the government has ever done, is a "service" provided. Is THAT the point you want to make here, retard? When I think of a "government service" it's generally something that government provides specifically for our service out of our tax dollars, like the FDA. It's NOT the Social Security program, which WE fund through a trust and obtain benefits in accordance to what we've paid in. That's a "service" we are providing for ourselves, and government is administering.