"Hate Begets Hate" and Civil Politics

P

PoliTalker

Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello,

Once again, my thoughts turn to the memory of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. As I read the vitriol on this board, my heart cries for those who have become embroiled in such dark thoughts. These immature outbursts and all-too-predictable flame wars are damaging to the psyche. That means: if you engage in this, you are hurting yourself.

Dr Martin Luther King Jr understood this implicitly:

"Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love… Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding.

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. … Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." (MLK)
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Substitute 'liberal' or 'conservative' for 'white man,' and every word rings true, right here on JPP.

'Everybody' does NOT get into flame wars. If you read carefully you will see this is absolutely true. Right in there with all the trash talk, are people ignoring the flames and making good solid points. It is up to each of us to decide how we conduct ourselves here. The way you post can't be blamed on anybody else but you. And the good news is you can change if you want to. It is all within your control. And if anybody makes fun of you it doesn't matter. Once you find the power to ignore taunts, you are free of being harassed.

I recently learned of an organization devoted to reducing hatred:

Civil Politics

It may feel good in the moment to blurt, but it's not really helpful in the long run. If you really want what's best for the USA, that makes you a good patriot. Hatred is not what is best for the USA.

If you find yourself hating other Americans, you might be a better patriot if you found a way to stop focusing on why they are so bad, and learn to appreciate them for their good.

If MLK were alive now, and could see the conversations taking place across the internet chat rooms of America, he would say: "Flames beget flames."
 
Oh gosh.

I completely forgot the ban list.

Oh well.

We'll just have to allow all to have their say on this one.
 
PoliTalker said:
Oh gosh.

I completely forgot the ban list.

Oh well.

We'll just have to allow all to have their say on this one.
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The Russians and Chinese (and maybe others) have done a great job in pitting Americans against Americans. The Russians and Chinese can move forward on their Global Plans while Americans are in a Death Struggle with themselves.

Red Team/Blue Team! Who will accuse who? More Investigations! Traitors. Conspiracies?
 
Sounds like Pollyanna talk to me, Politalker.

If you can't recognize that people are not all the same and not all compatible, that's a perception issue.

If I acted civilly toward people like Banjofuck and Bullshit Blob and the present President of the United States,
I'd lose all respect for myself.

We tried that hippie flowers and love shit to save the country from vermin fifty years ago. I was there. Epic Fail.

Sometimes you just have to treat vermin like vermin.
And now the vermin infestation issue is much worse than it was then.
Trumpanzees represent a new low.
 
Hello Nifty,

NiftyNiblick said:
Sometimes you just have to treat vermin like vermin.
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And what if they are not vermin, but fellow Americans who want a better America, just as you do, but they simply see a different path toward that same goal?

NiftyNiblick said:
And now the vermin infestation issue is much worse than it was then.
Click to expand...

What did you expect? Flames beget flames.

Do you really think hate is going to do any good?

Research shows that hatred causes more hatred. Apparently you didn't spend much time at the link I provided. Or, did you even check it out at all?
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Nifty, And what if they are not vermin, but fellow Americans who want a better America, just as you do, but they simply see a different path toward that same goal?
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But this has been the root of all of my posts since I came here.

People who disagree on the means to a common goal CAN INDEED DEBATE the means to get there.
That was ONCE the case between Democrats and Republicans. It hasn't been true for years now.

WE DO NOT HAVE COMMON GOALS.
Their idea of a GREAT AMERICA is our idea of HELL...and vice versa.

They're misogynists, theocrats, racists, xenophobes, homophobes, anti-intellectuals, and fascists. And what's nearly as bad, vulgarians.
An America in which they have influence and power is a SHITHOLE.

I'm an old man, now.
I couldn't personally make them all disappear even if I were young.
What I can do is talk and write about them, so that the people capable of recognizing logic will share my seething hatred for them and help take them down.

Your trying to attribute human status toward them will do nothing to help. It just makes you a Trumpanzee sympathizer.
That's treason. That's not your goal, perhaps, but at the very least,
it's an inadvertent consequence of your false equivalencies, PoliTalker.
 
Well, PoliTalker? Does that answer your question? (and that's one of the smart people talking to you) :(
 
Hello Politalker,
The board has been unusually acrimonious for the past week or so, causing me to reduce my participation. Life is too short. But Nifty is right about, "Pollyanna talk." No one enjoys being lectured by sanctimonious types. You have been at it for a while, and I respectfully submit that nothing has changed due to your efforts. But continue to plug away.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
But this has been the root of all of my posts since I came here.

People who disagree on the means to a common goal CAN INDEED DEBATE the means to get there.
That was ONCE the case between Democrats and Republicans. It hasn't been true for years now.

WE DO NOT HAVE COMMON GOALS.
Their idea of a GREAT AMERICA is our idea of HELL...and vice versa.

They're misogynists, theocrats, racists, xenophobes, homophobes, anti-intellectuals, and fascists. And what's nearly as bad, vulgarians.
An America in which they have influence and power is a SHITHOLE.

I'm an old man, now.
I couldn't personally make them all disappear even if I were young.
What I can do is talk and write about them, so that the people capable of recognizing logic will share my seething hatred for them and help take them down.

Your trying to attribute human status toward them will do nothing to help. It just makes you a Trumpanzee sympathizer.
That's treason. That's not your goal, perhaps, but at the very least,
it's an inadvertent consequence of your false equivalencies, PoliTalker.
Click to expand...

Not sure you could have come up with a better example of oxymoron if your were trying than with that post.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Please explain. Where's the oxymoron?
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fashioning your seething hatred as logic; rallying against "fascists" while lamenting you cannot disappear the opposition; fashioning yourself an intellectual and not a vulgarian while using vulgarity and nonsense terminology like "Trumpanzee sympathizer"; labeling the other side as xenophobes while illustrating absolute opposition to those whose opinions you find foreign.

A virtual smörgåsbord of oxymoron that one. Well done :thumbsup:
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Sounds like Pollyanna talk to me, Politalker.

If you can't recognize that people are not all the same and not all compatible, that's a perception issue.

If I acted civilly toward people like Banjofuck and Bullshit Blob and the present President of the United States,
I'd lose all respect for myself.

We tried that hippie flowers and love shit to save the country from vermin fifty years ago. I was there. Epic Fail.

Sometimes you just have to treat vermin like vermin.
And now the vermin infestation issue is much worse than it was then.
Trumpanzees represent a new low.
Click to expand...

If you had any respect for yourself you wouldn't be a liberal. :laugh:
 
Check out American history. The hate and vitriol between politicians, the trashing of the press of particular politicians. They pulled guns on one another on the floors of Congress had fist fights and wrote public letters trashing one another. The original Secretary Of The Treasury Alexander Hamilton was shot to death in a duel by the Vise President Aaron Burr. We survived all of that and it's ebbed and flowed from extreme to not so extreme over the centuries. The actual revolution will come when we bankrupt ourselves because that will drastically and negatively economically effect the population at large.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Sounds like Pollyanna talk to me, Politalker.

If you can't recognize that people are not all the same and not all compatible, that's a perception issue.

If I acted civilly toward people like Banjofuck and Bullshit Blob and the present President of the United States,
I'd lose all respect for myself.

We tried that hippie flowers and love shit to save the country from vermin fifty years ago. I was there. Epic Fail.

Sometimes you just have to treat vermin like vermin.
And now the vermin infestation issue is much worse than it was then.
Trumpanzees represent a new low.
Click to expand...
Not quite the way I'd put it. Trump and his Trumpanzees represent the highest that such a low has yet reached in this country. IOW Trump has dragged the office of the presidency to new lows.
 
PoliTalker said:
And what if they are not vermin, but fellow Americans who want a better America, just as you do, but they simply see a different path toward that same goal?
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The problem with that viewpoint is that their idea of a better America is profoundly unAmerican, even anti-American. So their goal is totally different from that of real Americans. For one thing, their goals are rooted in hatred, and are profoundly anti-Christian.
 
da resistance /de-legitimization is just all fine and dandy huh? just be cool and take it -don't object -
it's just fake news, why get upset?

The repubs were bad enough with legislative obstructionism -but the Dems go after the office itself with idiotic
" we won more votes" "Russian collusion" and any other crap at hand.

They are poo throwers and then say -Why is Trump so mean?"..
 
anatta said:
da resistance /de-legitimization is just all fine and dandy huh? just be cool and take it -don't object -
it's just fake news, why get upset?

The repubs were bad enough with legislative obstructionism -but the Dems go after the office itself with idiotic
" we won more votes" "Russian collusion" and any other crap at hand.

They are poo throwers and then say -Why is Trump so mean?"..
Click to expand...
We went through 8 years of the GOP throwing mountains of poo, but that was alright with you. Now it's "respect the office" after you displayed zero respect for almost a decade. Trump is mean because he's always been mean. He expects reality to conform to his wishes and for eceryone around him to kowtow to him. This being a public figure responsible to others is completely foreign to his experience. There has never been anyone in the WH less suited for the position.
 
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