Have We Entered The Next Dark Ages?

Hawkeye10 said:
It's amazing how poor at communication so many are now.

We used to be better.
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when? never has been a line of communication that allowed all people to understand why life only works while currently alive as individually occupying space now?
 
serenity said:
more like the forcasted end of time governing human reproductions by deception from now on. you are welcome. Really got tired of that art and reality, chicken and egg nonsense for the last century.
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Well, try not to over-think things right now. Concentrate on taking care of your health and your loved ones and stay hopeful
 
Cypress said:
Now that I am well into my 50s, with age comes perspective. The world was supposed to end about two dozen times in the course of my life.
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You would be surprised how close we came to global devastation during the 1960s.

I'm talking about the Cuban Missile Crisis that played out between JFK and the Soviets through September and October of 1962.

On the 27th of October, 1962, a B-59 Russian submarine was underwater off the coast of Cuba. Conditions inside this sub were very harsh as it was a Russian submarine that had been designed for the cold waters of the North, not for for the warm tropical waters of equatorial Cuba. Travelling through the warm tropical waters to Cuba pretty much drained the batteries that powered the sub's cooling systems. This meant that the crew had to cope with very high temperatures and stuffy air, which resulted in heat exhaustion.Being inside the sub was kind of like being trapped in a steam sauna at a Health Club with the temperature set close to 40 degree Celcius.

This Russian submarine was equipped with one ten kilotonne nuclear torpedo, and the Captain of the sub was authorised to fire it without having to request prior permission from from his military/political superiors in Moscow.


The B-59 was spotted by a US aircraft-carrier, the "USS Randolph", and ten Destroyers that were accompanying her. They were cruising off the coast of Cuba, letting Castro and the Russians know the US was extremely pissed off.


After the B-59 was spotted, the Americans wanted it to surface, so what they did was to drop hundreds of mini- depth charges (PCPs) down onto the B-59. These little depth-charges were like hand-grenades, they were dropped into the water, sank down, and were set to explode on or around the B-59. They created a tremendous noise for the submariners as they exploded; but unlike a standard depth-charge they were not capable of - or intended to- actually destroy a submarine entirely. One of the Russian crew who was on the B-59 said that when the mini-depth-charges were going off near the sub, he felt like he was inside a metal drum that was being constantly struck by large sledgehammers on the outside.



The mini- depth-charges, as I say, were designed, not to destroy enemy submarines, but to "notify" them that they has been detected and were to rise immediately to the surface. The Captain of the B-59, however, thought that the tremendous, non-stop explosive noise of the PCPs was evidence that total war had broken out between the Soviet Union and America. (And) Because his radio communication systems were not working, he could not contact Moscow or listen in to any other radio traffic to find out what was happening in the world above.


Before I go on, I must ask you to bear in mind that the whole "Cuban Missile Crisis" had everyone from JFK in the Oval Office and Nikita Krushchev in the Kremlin down to the ordinary man on the street stressed out in a big way. On the 22nd of October, 1962, President Kennedy delivered a speech to the American public on television, that is still chilling to watch today. Kennedy looked very pale and drained, he had dark rings under his eyes, probably from lack of sleep. He told the public that the Russians had suddenly, secretly and swiftly sent strategic nuclear missiles and nuclear bombs to Cuba that had the ability to strike America. He also said that the Russians had repeatedly lied when questioned about their recent activities in Cuba. There was hard evidence, he said, that strategic (long-range) nuclear missiles were currently in the process of being transferred to launching sites on Cuba. But the most unsettling passage in the speech was Kennedy's solemn promise that should the Russians launch just one nuclear missile against the US or any of its Western Allies, America would "respond with full retaliatory force" In other words, there would be a global nuclear war.


Returning now to the scene inside the embattled B-59. The Senior Officers and the crew were in bad shape, they were all suffering in the swealtering heat inside the sub (which was well over 100 degrees Fahrenheit), many had developed infected rashes on their skin. All of the crew and their senior officers were also feeling the effects of carbon dioxide intoxication from the failure of the sub's air-conditioning system, i.e; light-headedness, dizziness and and in some cases fainting. It was in these harsh circumstances that Captain Savitsky's behaviour became increasingly erratic and irrational. A crew member who was present at the time, recalls observing at one point that Sativsky's "Nerves were shot", he became "paranoid" and "afraid of his own shadow"; he was shouting angrily at other members of the crew. As I said above, Captain Sativsky was certain that the sounds of the exploding mini-depth -charges outside the B-59 were evidence that World War III had broken out. This, I think, was evidence that his reasoning and judgement had been materially impaired by constant heat stress and the toxic carbon dioxide build- up inside the sub. When severe heat exhaustion and a deficient supply of oxygen along with carbon dioxide poisoning are added to the standard stresses and worriment that would affect any submarine Captain, (especially a Russian one embarked on a mission to support the delivery of a large number of nuclear weapons to Cuba just 90 miles off the southern coast of America during the Cold War), it is hardly surprising that Savitsky "snapped."


From what I have read about the Soviet military there was a creed /ethos of "Death before Dishonour" (or something approaching it) that had a strong influence, especially on the conduct of those who had leadership responsibilities in the armed forces. This might, in part, explain why Captain Savitsky was reported to have shouted...


"We're gonna blast them now ! We will die, but we will sink them - we will not become the shame of the fleet". Savatsky then ordered the sub's T-5 nuclear torpedo to be prepared for firing. I think I mentioned that this nuclear torpedo carried a 10 kiloton warhead, which means it would deliver roughly the same explosive force as the nuclear bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima in 1945. Savitsky intended to fired the T-5 torpedo into one of the American warships directly above him (probably the air-carrier, USS Randolph). When the torpedo struck its target, the nuclear explosion would instantly annihilate all of the other US navy vessels around it. It would also destroy the B-59, and worse still, trigger a global thermonuclear war.


Captain Savitsky's submarine, the B-59, was one of four "Foxtrott Class" subs that had departed from a base in far North - West Russia on the 1st October 1962. The B-59 was the flagship and her three sisterships were the: B-4; B-36 and B-130. Their mission was to support the delivery of Soviet arms to Cuba. These arms were, of course, nuclear weapons and included a mixture of nuclear bombs; tactical (short range) nuclear weapons, ICBM (strategic) nuclear missiles and so on.


On each of these "Foxtrott Class" submarines there were only TWO men who had the authority to launch the nuclear (T-5) torpedo that was carried onboard: (1) The Captain, and (2) The Political Officer (or Commissar). Each man had one half of a key that when joined together unlocked the firing mechanism for the T-5 torpedo. By PURE CHANCE there happened to be a third man on the B-59, Vasily Archipov ( a Chief of Staff of the 69th Submarine Brigade) who was also entitled to a say in the matter of whether the sub's T-5 , nuclear torpedo was to be launched. Before the nuclear torpedo on the B-59 was fired, all THREE men: Captain Savitsky; the Political Officer and Archipov had to agree.


Captain Sativsky was ready to fire the nuclear torpedo and the Political Officer agreed with him. But Archipov did not agree. Archipov and Sativsky argued loudly for some time about the launching of the T-5 nuclear torpedo, eventually, however, Archipov managed to calm down the highly excited Captain and make him see sense. And so it was that Sativsky then ordered the B-59 to surface, which it did, popping up amidst a cluster of American Destroyers and the USS Randolph. Knowing that her presence in these waters was unwelcome (to say the very least !), the B-59 promptly turned tail and limped back home to Mother Russia.


So that is how very close we came to a Global Nuclear War. It was PURE CHANCE that Archipov happened to be on the B-59 that day and was able to persuade its half-crazed Captain not to launch a nuclear torpedo that saved the world from an apocalypse.


Experts disagree about exactly what kind of devastation would have resulted if the US, Russia and the UK had launched their Nuclear arsenals in an all-out war in 1962. But even the conservative estimates of how many human being would have died, and what life would have been like for those who survived, do not bear thinking about.


So, if you're bored of hearing stories about how mankind is doomed and the world is soon to become a dead planet, that was one example where we were, like the song says, TRULY "on the eve of destruction".



The way I look at it, we (human beings) are all "born to die". Sad, isn't it? But its just the way of the world, so there is no point stressing about your mortality.


Dachshund
 
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Dachshynddawg said:
You would be surprised how close we came to global devastation during the 1960s.

I'm talking about the Cuban Missile Crisis that played out between JFK and the Soviets through September and October of 1962.

On the 27th of October, 1962, a B-59 Russian submarine was underwater off the coast of Cuba. Conditions inside this sub were very harsh as it was a Russian submarine that had been designed for the cold waters of the North, not for for the warm tropical waters of equatorial Cuba. Travelling through the warm tropical waters to Cuba pretty much drained the batteries that powered the sub's cooling systems. This meant that the crew had to cope with very high temperatures and stuffy air, which resulted in heat exhaustion.Being inside the sub was kind of like being trapped in a steam sauna at a Health Club with the temperature set close to 40 degree Celcius.

This Russian submarine was equipped with one ten kilotonne nuclear torpedo, and the Captain of the sub was authorised to fire it without having to request prior permission from from his military/political superiors in Moscow.


The B-59 was spotted by US surveilance aircraft who were flying over and around Cuba, keeping an eye on what Castro was doing with the Russian nuclear missles he had on the island.


After the B-59 was spotted, the Americans sent a mini-fleet of navy battleships and destroyers to where the Russian sub was located. The Americans wanted the B-59 to surface, so what they did was to drop hundreds of mini- depth charges onto the B-59. These little depth-charges were like hand-grenades, they were dropped into the water and would explode around the B-59 create a tremendous noise as they exploded; but unlike a standard depth-charge they were not capable of actually destroying the sub entirely. One of the Russian crew who was on the B-59 said that when the mini-depth-charges were going off near the sub it felt like he was inside a metal drum that was being constantly struck by large hammers on the outside.


The mini- depth-charges were designed, not to destroy enemy submarines, but to notify them that they has been located and were to rise to the surface. The Captain of the B-59, however, thought that the tremendous, non-stop explosive noise of the mini-depth-charges was evidence that war had broken out between the Soviet Union and America.

Before I go on, you must bear in mind that the whole "Cuban Missile Crisis" had everyone from JFK in the Oval Office and Nikita Krushchev in the Kremlin down to the ordinary man on the street stressed out. On the 22nd of October, 1962, President Kennedy delivered a speech to the American public on television, that is still chilling to watch today. Kennedy looked very pale and drained, he had dark rings under his eyes, probably from lack of sleep. He told the public that the Russians had suddenly, secretly and swiftly sent strategic nuclear missiles and nuclear bombs to Cuba that had the ability to strike America. Kennedy said that the Russians had repeatedly lied when questioned about their recent activities in Cuba. There was also evidence, he said, that strategic (long-range) missiles were currently in the process of being transferred on launching sites on Cuba. But the most unsettling passage in the speech was Kennedy's solemn promise that should the Russians launch just one nuclear missile against the US or any of its Western Allies, America would "respond with full retaliatory force" In other words, there would be a global nuclear war.


Returning now to the scene inside the embattled B-59. The Senior Officers and the crew were in bad shape, they were all suffering in the swealtering heat inside the sub (which was well over 100 degrees Fahrenheit), many had developed infected rashes on their skin. All of the crew and their senior officers were also feeling the effects of carbon dioxide intoxication from the failure of the sub's air-conditioning system, i.e;: light-headedness, dizziness and fainting. It was in these circumstances that the Captain Savitsky's behaviour became erratic and irrational. A crew member who was present at the time, recalls that Sativsky's "Nerves were shot", he became paranoid and "afraid of his own shadow"; he was yelling angrily at other members of the crew. As I mentioned above, he was certain that the sounds of the exploding mini-depth -charges outside the B-59 were evidence that World War III had broken out. This, I think was evidence that his reasoning and judgement had been materially impaired by constant heat stress and carbon dioxide build- up inside the sub. When severe heat exhaustion and lack of oxygen are added to the standard stresses and worriment that accompany the responsibilities of any submarine Captain, it is hardly surprising that Savitsky "snapped."


From what I have read about the Soviet military there is a creed /ethos of "Death before Dishonour" (or something approaching it) that is a strong influence on the conduct of those who have leadership responsibilities. This might explain why Captain Savitsky was reported to have shouted...


"We're gonna blast them now ! We will die, but we will sink them - we will not become the shame of the fleet". Savatsky then ordered the T-5 nuclear torpedo. on the sub to be prepared for firing. I think I mentioned that this nuclear torpedo carried a 10 kilotonne warhead, which means it would deliver the same explosive force as the nuclear bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima in 1945 Savatsky intended to fired the T-5 torpedo into one of the American battle ships directly above him.When the torpedo struck its target, the nuclear explosion would instantly annihilate all of the other US navy warships above, and it would also destroy the B-59, and worse still, trigger a global nuclear war.


Captain Savitsky's submarine, the B-59, was one of four "Foxtrott Class" subs that were sent from a base in far North - West Russia on the 1st October 1962 The B-59 was the flagship and her sisterships were the: B-4; B-36 and B-130. Their mission was to support the delivery of Soviet arms to Cuba. These arms were nuclear weapons and included a mixture of nuclear bombs; tactical (short range) nuclear weapons ICBM (strategic) nuclear missiles and so on.


On each of these submarines there were only TWO men who had the authority to launch the nuclear (T-5) torpedo that was carried onboard: (1) The Captain, and (2) The Political Officer (or Comissar). Each man had one half of a key that when joined together unlocked the firing mechanism for the T-5 torpedo. By PURE CHANCE there happened to be a third man on the B-59, Vasily Archipov ( a Chief of Staff of the 69th Submarine Brigade) who was also entitled to say. Before the nuclear torpedo on the B-59 was fired, THREE men: Captain Savitsky; the Political Officer and Archipov had to agree.


Captain Sativsky was ready to fire the nuclear torpedo. The Political Officer agreed with him. But Archipov did not agree. Archipov and Sativsky argued for some time about launching the nuclear torpedo, but eventually Archipov managed to calm down the highly excited Captain and make him see sense. After this, Sativsky ordered the B-59 to surface, which it did, popping up amidst a cluster of American Destroyers and the USS Randolph. She then then turned tail and limped back home to Russia.


That is how close we came to a Global Nuclear War. It was pure chance that Archipov happened to be on the B-59 and was able to persuade its half-crazed Captain not to launch a nuclear torpedo that saved the world.


Experts disagree about exactly what kind of devastation would have resulted if the US, Russia and the UK had launched their Nuclear arsenals in 1962. But even the conservative estimates of how many human being would have died, and what life would be like for those who survived do not bear thinking about.


So, if you're bored of hearing stories about how mankind is doomed and the world is soon to become a dead planet, there's one example where we were, like the song says, TRULY "on the eve of destruction".



The way I look at it, we (human beings) are all "born to die". Sad, isn't it? But its just the way of the world, so there is no point stressing about your mortality.


Dachshund
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1,401 words is too many.

What R U thinking?

Steve
 
Hawkeye10 said:
1,401 words is too many.

What R U thinking?

Steve
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I got carried away. I was thinking to myself how much I loathe socialism, and I remembered that the Soviets almost triggered a nuclear holocaust on the 27th Oct, 1962. And, then I started thinking: there are STILL millions people in the US who simply don't understand that socialism of any kind (in any disguise) from Marx's "scientific socialism" to Postmodernism or Marcuse's Critical Theory just doesn't work. They just cannot understand, despite the horrors of socialism in the 20th century, that if it manages to get a foothold in a society, it ALWAYS generates heaps and heaps of fucking MISERY. I mean, WTF is WRONG with people ?? Women and children (18 -25 year- olds) voting for the left I can kind of understand because they are both relatively stupid; but a rational, white, male who is, say, a leftist, progressive, social science academic,WHAT'S HIS EXCUSE ??!!


Dachshund
 
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Dachshynddawg said:
I got carried away. I was thinking to myself how much I loathe socialism, and I remembered that the Soviets almost triggered a nuclear holocaust on the 27th Oct, 1962. And, then I started thinking: there are STILL millions people in the US who simply don't understand that socialism of any kind (in any disguise) from Marx's "scientific socialism" to Postmodernism or Marcuse's Critical Theory just doesn't work. In fact, if it manages to get a foothold, it ALWAYS generates heaps and heaps of fucking MISERY. I mean, WTF is WRONG with people ?? Women and children voting for the left I can kind of understand because they are both relatively stupid, but a rational, white, male who is, say, a leftist, progressive, social science academic,WHAT'S HIS EXCUSE ??!!


Dachshund
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What is wrong with people?

That is a six hour conversation over drinks, and I am currently eating the best cream of mushroom soup of my life, homemade of course.






Some other time.










PERHAPS!
 
Hawkeye10 said:
What is wrong with people?

That is a six hour conversation over drinks, and I am currently eating the best cream of mushroom soup of my life, homemade of course.






Some other time.










PERHAPS!
Click to expand...

Yes, it's a long conversation- and probably futile - in particular "over drinks". Alcohol is a very potent drug you know; it wipes out the highest rational faculties in the brain really fast -( I'm not moralising, because I have drunk a lot of alcohol in my time. I'm just sayin'),


Enjoy your homemade Cream of Mushroom soup. I'm having a Big Mac + large fries + Chocolate Sundae + Diet Coke. I don't cook any more because I got fed up with cleaning up the mess that is always made when you prepare your own dinners at home. Even when you cook something relatively simple, it always leaves shit all over the place, and you have to spend 1/2 an hour cleaning it up !!


Regards


John
 
Dachshynddawg said:
Yes, it's a long conversation- and probably futile - in particular "over drinks". Alcohol is a very potent drug you know; it wipes out the highest rational faculties in the brain really fast -( I'm not moralising, because I have drunk a lot of alcohol in my time. I'm just sayin'),


Enjoy your homemade Cream of Mushroom soup. I'm having a Big Mac + large fries + Chocolate Sundae + Diet Coke. I don't cook any more because I got fed up with cleaning up the mess that is always made when you prepare your own dinners at home. Even when you cook something relatively simple, it always leaves shit all over the place, and you have to spend 1/2 an hour cleaning it up !!


Regards


John
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When The Better People conduct a conversation it is never useless.



Under what rock have you been hiding?



Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
Well, try not to over-think things right now. Concentrate on taking care of your health and your loved ones and stay hopeful
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Navigating kinetic self evident life doesn't take over thinking, just avoiding human error governing thought time changes everything and tomorrow leads to better days from now on. Single issue on that proposition, reproductions are only timed apart as occupying space now conceived to decomposed as a cycle of life to numbers present.
 
Good morning Geeko Sportivo,

Geeko Sportivo said:
I would like to think that we are not going back into the dark ages.

I think we are in an age that is "Coming into light"!

This world crisis is revealing a lot of things:

Our medical system is broken. vulnerable to pandemics, underfunded, ill-equipped, under-staffed, NONE OF WHICH IS THE FAULT OF THE MEDICAL INDUSTRY!

We learned what can happen when our president does not use good judgement and does nothing substantial for 90 days to prevent the spread of a pandemic or prepare for the worst.

We learned that the Republican party led by Donald Trump cares more about the economy than the lives of Americans!

We learned that science is right and Donald Trump was wrong!

We learned that Joe Biden was absolutely right about what he said in January about the dangers of the virus and how Donald Trump was the wrong president to handle the crisis!

Those are just a few of the things I learned- But I would also be happy to learn what any of you people have personally learned during the crisis!
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Live each day to the fullest. You never know what tomorrow will bring or even if you get a tomorrow.
 
PoliTalker said:
Poverty is rampant across the globe.

Disease spreading far and wide.

Pollution worse than ever.

The very climate of the planet is in peril.

Species loss greater than it has been in thousands of years.

Political factions becoming increasingly polarized.

Leadership failing, spreading propaganda, acting selfishly.

Hatred and misunderstanding growing, capitalism selling anger.

Major institutions threatened.

Lifespans are shortening. Threats abound.

Are we improving the human condition or is it in the process of deterioration?

Fast forward hundreds of years into the future. Will this age be looked back upon with admiration or sorrow?
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No is my answer to the "Dark Ages" question.

The "Information Age" is a two-edged sword. Several years ago I read a study were colleges had "Date Rape Awareness" seminars. In all of them reports of Date Rape shot upwards in the weeks following the seminar. Did the seminar cause date rapes? Did it make people more likely to commit date rape? Were more people lying about date rape? Of course not. Awareness makes people more sensitive to an issue and they respond accordingly.

The Information Age allows a window to the world 24/7. Kids were starving in Africa and small wars were happening all across the globe before the Internet even though most people were blissfully unaware of them. The fact we now know about them doesn't mean they are increasing. It only means we're more aware of them.

War is becoming less common as well as having fewer war fatalities. In nine years of war the US lost 58,000 citizens. In about the same time period the US lost 4,424 Americans, less than 10% of the Vietnam casualties. There are several reasons for this but one is that, despite the "awareness", wars are becoming smaller and less fatal.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Nobody writes at the 16+ grade level (Flesch-Kincaid ) for a general audience if they want the audience to understand unless they are a complete moron.
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Agreed. OTOH, some writers are incapable of writing above the 5th Grade level. One example is Donald "the J is for Jenius" Trump.
 
Hello Dachshynddawg,

Dachshynddawg said:
You would be surprised how close we came to global devastation during the 1960s.

I'm talking about the Cuban Missile Crisis that played out between JFK and the Soviets through September and October of 1962.

On the 27th of October, 1962, a B-59 Russian submarine was underwater off the coast of Cuba. Conditions inside this sub were very harsh as it was a Russian submarine that had been designed for the cold waters of the North, not for for the warm tropical waters of equatorial Cuba. Travelling through the warm tropical waters to Cuba pretty much drained the batteries that powered the sub's cooling systems. This meant that the crew had to cope with very high temperatures and stuffy air, which resulted in heat exhaustion.Being inside the sub was kind of like being trapped in a steam sauna at a Health Club with the temperature set close to 40 degree Celcius.

This Russian submarine was equipped with one ten kilotonne nuclear torpedo, and the Captain of the sub was authorised to fire it without having to request prior permission from from his military/political superiors in Moscow.


The B-59 was spotted by a US aircraft-carrier, the "USS Randolph", and ten Destroyers that were accompanying her. They were cruising off the coast of Cuba, letting Castro and the Russians know the US was extremely pissed off.


After the B-59 was spotted, the Americans wanted it to surface, so what they did was to drop hundreds of mini- depth charges (PCPs) down onto the B-59. These little depth-charges were like hand-grenades, they were dropped into the water, sank down, and were set to explode on or around the B-59. They created a tremendous noise for the submariners as they exploded; but unlike a standard depth-charge they were not capable of - or intended to- actually destroy a submarine entirely. One of the Russian crew who was on the B-59 said that when the mini-depth-charges were going off near the sub, he felt like he was inside a metal drum that was being constantly struck by large sledgehammers on the outside.



The mini- depth-charges, as I say, were designed, not to destroy enemy submarines, but to "notify" them that they has been detected and were to rise immediately to the surface. The Captain of the B-59, however, thought that the tremendous, non-stop explosive noise of the PCPs was evidence that total war had broken out between the Soviet Union and America. (And) Because his radio communication systems were not working, he could not contact Moscow or listen in to any other radio traffic to find out what was happening in the world above.


Before I go on, I must ask you to bear in mind that the whole "Cuban Missile Crisis" had everyone from JFK in the Oval Office and Nikita Krushchev in the Kremlin down to the ordinary man on the street stressed out in a big way. On the 22nd of October, 1962, President Kennedy delivered a speech to the American public on television, that is still chilling to watch today. Kennedy looked very pale and drained, he had dark rings under his eyes, probably from lack of sleep. He told the public that the Russians had suddenly, secretly and swiftly sent strategic nuclear missiles and nuclear bombs to Cuba that had the ability to strike America. He also said that the Russians had repeatedly lied when questioned about their recent activities in Cuba. There was hard evidence, he said, that strategic (long-range) nuclear missiles were currently in the process of being transferred to launching sites on Cuba. But the most unsettling passage in the speech was Kennedy's solemn promise that should the Russians launch just one nuclear missile against the US or any of its Western Allies, America would "respond with full retaliatory force" In other words, there would be a global nuclear war.


Returning now to the scene inside the embattled B-59. The Senior Officers and the crew were in bad shape, they were all suffering in the swealtering heat inside the sub (which was well over 100 degrees Fahrenheit), many had developed infected rashes on their skin. All of the crew and their senior officers were also feeling the effects of carbon dioxide intoxication from the failure of the sub's air-conditioning system, i.e; light-headedness, dizziness and and in some cases fainting. It was in these harsh circumstances that Captain Savitsky's behaviour became increasingly erratic and irrational. A crew member who was present at the time, recalls observing at one point that Sativsky's "Nerves were shot", he became "paranoid" and "afraid of his own shadow"; he was shouting angrily at other members of the crew. As I said above, Captain Sativsky was certain that the sounds of the exploding mini-depth -charges outside the B-59 were evidence that World War III had broken out. This, I think, was evidence that his reasoning and judgement had been materially impaired by constant heat stress and the toxic carbon dioxide build- up inside the sub. When severe heat exhaustion and a deficient supply of oxygen along with carbon dioxide poisoning are added to the standard stresses and worriment that would affect any submarine Captain, (especially a Russian one embarked on a mission to support the delivery of a large number of nuclear weapons to Cuba just 90 miles off the southern coast of America during the Cold War), it is hardly surprising that Savitsky "snapped."


From what I have read about the Soviet military there was a creed /ethos of "Death before Dishonour" (or something approaching it) that had a strong influence, especially on the conduct of those who had leadership responsibilities in the armed forces. This might, in part, explain why Captain Savitsky was reported to have shouted...


"We're gonna blast them now ! We will die, but we will sink them - we will not become the shame of the fleet". Savatsky then ordered the sub's T-5 nuclear torpedo to be prepared for firing. I think I mentioned that this nuclear torpedo carried a 10 kiloton warhead, which means it would deliver roughly the same explosive force as the nuclear bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima in 1945. Savitsky intended to fired the T-5 torpedo into one of the American warships directly above him (probably the air-carrier, USS Randolph). When the torpedo struck its target, the nuclear explosion would instantly annihilate all of the other US navy vessels around it. It would also destroy the B-59, and worse still, trigger a global thermonuclear war.


Captain Savitsky's submarine, the B-59, was one of four "Foxtrott Class" subs that had departed from a base in far North - West Russia on the 1st October 1962. The B-59 was the flagship and her three sisterships were the: B-4; B-36 and B-130. Their mission was to support the delivery of Soviet arms to Cuba. These arms were, of course, nuclear weapons and included a mixture of nuclear bombs; tactical (short range) nuclear weapons, ICBM (strategic) nuclear missiles and so on.


On each of these "Foxtrott Class" submarines there were only TWO men who had the authority to launch the nuclear (T-5) torpedo that was carried onboard: (1) The Captain, and (2) The Political Officer (or Commissar). Each man had one half of a key that when joined together unlocked the firing mechanism for the T-5 torpedo. By PURE CHANCE there happened to be a third man on the B-59, Vasily Archipov ( a Chief of Staff of the 69th Submarine Brigade) who was also entitled to a say in the matter of whether the sub's T-5 , nuclear torpedo was to be launched. Before the nuclear torpedo on the B-59 was fired, all THREE men: Captain Savitsky; the Political Officer and Archipov had to agree.


Captain Sativsky was ready to fire the nuclear torpedo and the Political Officer agreed with him. But Archipov did not agree. Archipov and Sativsky argued loudly for some time about the launching of the T-5 nuclear torpedo, eventually, however, Archipov managed to calm down the highly excited Captain and make him see sense. And so it was that Sativsky then ordered the B-59 to surface, which it did, popping up amidst a cluster of American Destroyers and the USS Randolph. Knowing that her presence in these waters was unwelcome (to say the very least !), the B-59 promptly turned tail and limped back home to Mother Russia.


So that is how very close we came to a Global Nuclear War. It was PURE CHANCE that Archipov happened to be on the B-59 that day and was able to persuade its half-crazed Captain not to launch a nuclear torpedo that saved the world from an apocalypse.


Experts disagree about exactly what kind of devastation would have resulted if the US, Russia and the UK had launched their Nuclear arsenals in an all-out war in 1962. But even the conservative estimates of how many human being would have died, and what life would have been like for those who survived, do not bear thinking about.


So, if you're bored of hearing stories about how mankind is doomed and the world is soon to become a dead planet, that was one example where we were, like the song says, TRULY "on the eve of destruction".



The way I look at it, we (human beings) are all "born to die". Sad, isn't it? But its just the way of the world, so there is no point stressing about your mortality.


Dachshund
Click to expand...

Wow.

Just goes to show us how precious life is.
 
Hello Dachshynddawg,

Dachshynddawg said:
I got carried away. I was thinking to myself how much I loathe socialism, and I remembered that the Soviets almost triggered a nuclear holocaust on the 27th Oct, 1962. And, then I started thinking: there are STILL millions people in the US who simply don't understand that socialism of any kind (in any disguise) from Marx's "scientific socialism" to Postmodernism or Marcuse's Critical Theory just doesn't work. They just cannot understand, despite the horrors of socialism in the 20th century, that if it manages to get a foothold in a society, it ALWAYS generates heaps and heaps of fucking MISERY. I mean, WTF is WRONG with people ?? Women and children (18 -25 year- olds) voting for the left I can kind of understand because they are both relatively stupid; but a rational, white, male who is, say, a leftist, progressive, social science academic,WHAT'S HIS EXCUSE ??!!


Dachshund
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We already have socialism in most countries. There is no rule that it is all capitalism or all socialism. No such simple choice will ever have to be made in this complex world. Most countries have a hybrid mixture of the two for very good reasons. We want the best of both systems and we try to limit the downside of each.

The thought that if 'socialism takes hold it slowly destroys capitalism' is not logical. It is propaganda.

Also, socialism and communism are not the same thing, and white males have no more intelligence or fortitude than women or people of other races. Nor do they have any more right to make the decisions which affect others.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dachshynddawg,



We already have socialism in most countries. There is no rule that it is all capitalism or all socialism. No such simple choice will ever have to be made in this complex world. Most countries have a hybrid mixture of the two for very good reasons. We want the best of both systems and we try to limit the downside of each.

The thought that if 'socialism takes hold it slowly destroys capitalism' is not logical. It is propaganda.

Also, socialism and communism are not the same thing, and white males have no more intelligence or fortitude than women or people of other races. Nor do they have any more right to make the decisions which affect others.
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there is definitely variation amongst individuals tho

and men definitely have more fortitude, as a rule.
 
PoliTalker said:
Any of those tech advances able to bring back extinct species?

How about can they remove the massive swirling gyres of sloting plastic from each of the world's oceans, much less the sinking microplastics which threaten the basic creatures of the food chain of the seas?
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It depends. Our species has the tech to extract and preserve DNA. It has cloned some animals. Bringing back an extinct species might be done down, but definitely in the near future. It then becomes an ethics question: "Should we?"

As for trash: if the Earth were shrunk down to the size of a billiard ball, it would actually be smoother than one. In short, all the trash on the planet wouldn't matter, the Earth will be fine. OTOH, the human race might cause its own extinction. :)
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/ten-things-you-dont-know-about-the-earth
 
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Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
It depends. Our species has the tech to extract and preserve DNA. It has cloned some animals. Bringing back an extinct species might be done down, but definitely in the near future. It then becomes an ethics question: "Should we?"

As for trash: if the Earth were shrunk down to the size of a billiard ball, it would actually be smoother than one. In short, all the trash on the planet wouldn't matter, the Earth will be fine. OTOH, the human race might cause its own extinction. :)
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/ten-things-you-dont-know-about-the-earth
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Wow. Very interesting stuff. Knowing that other people think about such things makes me feel less weird.
 
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