Holders war on private school vouchers...

[Bonestorm]

Spending billions on NCLB and small amounts on vouchers isn't how I would go about destroying public education if that was my goal.

Well, you're pretending the same people are doing both. That's not necessarily the case.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/08/26/the-disparate-impact-of-holders-war-on-private-schools/

Why does Holder want to keep students from getting a better education?

Why does Holder want to prevent parents from choosing which school their kids go to?

Thats a red herring based on an assumption thst private schools are superior public schools when the oppositte is predominantly true in most of the nation.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Thats a red herring based on an assumption thst private schools are superior public schools when the oppositte is predominantly true in most of the nation.

yeah, which is why the elite send their kids to public schools. I support the ability of the PARENTS to CHOOSE which is best for their kids. You wish to protect the public school unions.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Because his boss is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Teacher's Union?

Complete and total bullshit. Holder is doing his job in protecting the public interest. These schools are failing cause assholes like SF would systematically underfund public schools to make their failure a self full filling prophecy. Then they want to turn around and send those kids to their cash cow charter schools where they'll receive a second rate education.

Way to go SF. Congrats on trying to make the masses permanent indentured servants.

Holder should be praised to the stars and the moons for his role in protecting public education, one of this nations greatest achievements ever!

A

 

[Mott the Hoople]

yeah, which is why the elite send their kids to public schools. I support the ability of the PARENTS to CHOOSE which is best for their kids. You wish to protect the public school unions.

I support the peoples right to choose too as long as it doesn't undermine public education. What you advocate is making public school failures a self full filling prophecy by systematically underfunding them. This is morally unconscionable. I lived in the south to long to buy this bullshit. I know what the motives are behind these kind of actions. There are two. To resegregate education (which they have pretty much succeeded in doing) and creating a cash cow for the pro business community that provides substandard education.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I believe that for some Republicans it is what they see as the first step toward eliminating universal free education in this country.

Yup I agree. I see that as treasonous too as universal public education is one of this nations greatest accomplishments. It is the great social equalizer. Want to turn our nation into an aristocracy of money? First get rid of universal public education.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

what are you talking about? Voucher programs provide the same 'free' education that is currently provided. They simply change who gets the funding and that change is decided by the parents. How would this in any way eliminate 'free' public education?

Bullshit. Most of those Charter schools are for profit institution. They divert substantial funding from already cash starved underfunded public schools making their failure inevitable. They have also never been shown to provide superior education but what they have been proven to do is line businessmen's pockets with money. That is an abuse of the taxpayers money and it is also incredibly short sighted.

Hell I believe in my community. I support our public schools and I pay stiff local taxes to assure our public schools succeed and my local public school is rated higher than all the private primary and secondary schools in the State! We graduate nearly 50% of our students as college ready. Is that worth the higher taxes we pay? It's worth every damned cent!

 

[cawacko]

Complete and total bullshit. Holder is doing his job in protecting the public interest. These schools are failing cause assholes like SF would systematically underfund public schools to make their failure a self full filling prophecy. Then they want to turn around and send those kids to their cash cow charter schools where they'll receive a second rate education.

Way to go SF. Congrats on trying to make the masses permanent indentured servants.

Holder should be praised to the stars and the moons for his role in protecting public education, one of this nations greatest achievements ever!

A

No dude that's such b.s. "Systematically underfunding" schools? That's the only call we hear "we need more money for schools", "we need more money for schools" and then when the money arrives and the results don't follow we hear "we need more money for schools". It's an endless cycle. Look at you being a conservative, trying to conserve the status quo, afraid to make any changes to our education system that is quite clearly failing a large number of minority students.

To want to "progress" as is in being progressive one can make changes and improvements to our school system without destroying it which is the boogey man you are trying to use to prevent any change.

 

[sedan]

We have these ONLINE schools here where they are substituting a school experience with an online experience and the kids are suffering.

Circumstances are different for everyone.

My stepson had a very difficult adolescence (two deaths in the immediate family among other problems).

I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have dropped out of school altogether if not for the online option.

Far better that he at least got his diploma from the online school than no diploma at all.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

By allowing (minority) children in failing schools an opportunity to go to a better school?

You were giving the definition of conservative earlier and defines exactly what you want to do right here. CONSERVE the education status quo. That thousands and thousands of poor (minority) children are stuck in failing inner city schools is ok with you because it doesn't really effect you personally and it goes against your ideology.

People can throw out 'racist', 'racist' chants all they want but there is nothing less caring to me than watching year after year after year of low inner city minority graduation rates and fighting to make sure nothing changes other than saying "we need more money".

There are obviously many reasons why some groups of kids struggle so much in school. There's not one easy solution. And vouchers are not a panacea that will solve all ills. But the status quo is clearly not working yet we have people who fight tooth and nail against any change.

Again, that's a false premise. There is no evidence supporting that the Charter schools are superior. In fact, the preponderance of evidence is that Public Schools are superior. In fact the evidence has been shown that Charters schools are used as a tool to systematically underfund public schools to assure they fail.

Why don't you try supporting your public schools instead of underfunding them and making them fail?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

They are attempting to get to a status quo that is way outdated, back before we had universal education.

In other words they are trying to segregate schools again. By golly, they have pretty much done it too in the South.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

On line k-12 schools and curriculum are both out there...and being subsidized by educational dollars out of state governments. We are continuiong to fight this in our state as our school baroness dictator (State Superintendent) is a rabid supporter of virtual and on-line schools. She is such a wise dentist.

Amen bro! Support your public schools!!!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I agree that failing schools need to be changed and students who live in failing school districts need to be given a choice. Charter schools would be what I support for that choice, not virtual or on-line schools.

Again, I agree as long as the Charter Schools are not used to underfund public schools. I think it would simply be wiser to invest in your public school and to provide them with the utmost of community support. We do that where I live and our public schools are awesome!

I'm appalled at many peoples lack of civic duty on this issue. Don't they care about their towns and communities?

 

[cawacko]

Again, that's a false premise. There is no evidence supporting that the Charter schools are superior. In fact, the preponderance of evidence is that Public Schools are superior. In fact the evidence has been shown that Charters schools are used as a tool to systematically underfund public schools to assure they fail.

Why don't you try supporting your public schools instead of underfunding them and making them fail?

Yeah, Obama is pushing charter schools because he hates public education and wants it to fail.

Kids don't all learn the same way yet you want every child to go through a one size fits all education format. You refuse to address the failings of our inner-city schools other than they need more money and I hate public education. That's a load of crap. If I hated public education I wouldn't have volunteered teaching at a low income minority high school for a number of years. You have let your ideology get in the way of what is best for the kids that need the most help and that is unfortunate.

 

[leaningright]

All I know is is that there aren't any easy fixes to the problem. When you pull money out of a school system the whole community suffers. Our budget has been decreased by $200K over the past several years. Where I was once freed up to teach some programming classes, AP Physics and such, I am now the only math teacher left here and must teach all of the required classes. Those other classes had to be eliminated. Where we once had 3 custodians, on of whom doubled as a bus mechanic, we now have one part time custodian. I am forced to drive a bus before and after school because those custodian positions also included bus driving. Let me tell you, if you are doing the teaching thing right you are wore out and in no way should be driving a bus ... especially in the PM. So cutting money out of a school system for any reason makes it really tough. I will say that in all of this our High School Math scores are still among the top in the state. It is our elementary that is having problems. They are not a failing school but are having difficulty keeping up with the standards...and yes, some of it is due to poor teaching.

Which brings me to this:

If my child was in a failing school and I wasn't able to supplement his education enough to overcome it, I would want the option to move him to a different district. In Oklahoma, we essentially have an open transfer situation until high school except when it comes to sports. The problem is that some districts are filled to the tipping point and are still operating short staffed so they are very likely to decline the transfer unless the student is a good student already.

Like I said, I don't pretend there is an easy fix to the situation and honestly do not know what the answer is. Vouchers... I can see those being a decent idea but can also see them being abused if not closely watched. Also, there is the bottom line of vouchers taking money out of the public school system. Also, you have to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers.

I am going to retire in 3 years, Lord willing. Not necessarily because I am tired of teaching, I really still like it, but because of all of the requirements that have been placed on us, especially Math and Science teachers, by the state. It has become extremely stressful the last 8 or 10 years.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

NCLB is a whole lot different from vouchers.

NCLB is also another mechanism that is meant to undermine public education by creating impossible to meet standards, then arbitrarily defining almost all public schools as failures when they can't reach those standards, and then manipulating that to make cash cows out of Charter Schools.

It's an attack on the very social fabric of this nation and it shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Bonestorm]

Ban private schools.

 

[cawacko]

Again, I agree as long as the Charter Schools are not used to underfund public schools. I think it would simply be wiser to invest in your public school and to provide them with the utmost of community support. We do that where I live and our public schools are awesome!

I'm appalled at many peoples lack of civic duty on this issue. Don't they care about their towns and communities?

Let's see Dublin is well to do 90% white suburb. Shocking it had good public schools. Come to Oakland, CA and see the failures of the public schools here and you'll be singing a different tune.

 

[cawacko]

NCLB is also another mechanism that is meant to undermine public education by creating impossible to meet standards, then arbitrarily defining almost all public schools as failures when they can't reach those standards, and then manipulating that to make cash cows out of Charter Schools.

It's an attack on the very social fabric of this nation and it shouldn't be tolerated.

LOL, now you are just trolling.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

6. Vouchers do not improve opportunities for children from low-income families:
Vouchers do little to help the poor. The payments often do not cover the entire cost of tuition or other mandatory fees for private schools. Thus, only families with the money to cover the cost of the rest of the tuition, uniforms, transportation, books and other supplies can use the vouchers. In Cleveland, the majority of families who were granted a voucher but did not use it cited the additional costs as the reason they could not use the voucher. Vouchers actually hurt low-income families by undermining the public schools they rely on.


10 Reasons Why Private School Vouchers Should Be Rejected

1. Vouchers undermine religious liberty:

The vast majority of private schools are run by religious groups. According to the U.S. Department of Education, 76 percent of private schools have a religious affiliation....vouchers force Americans to pay taxes to support religion. This runs counter to the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious liberty. In America, all religious activities should be supported with voluntary contributions.

2. Vouchers divert public money to unaccountable private schools:
School vouchers are little more than a backdoor way for the government to subsidize religious and other private schools...

3. Vouchers violate many state constitutional provisions:

4. The people do not support vouchers:
Americans have repeatedly expressed opposition to vouchers in public opinion polls. More tellingly, when people are given an opportunity to vote directly on vouchers through ballot referenda, they always reject the concept – usually by wide margins

5. Vouchers do not improve student academic performance:
According to multiple studies of the District of Columbia, Milwaukee and Cleveland school voucher programs, the targeted population does not perform better in reading and math than students in public schools.

6. Vouchers do not improve opportunities for children from low-income families:
Above

7. Vouchers do not save taxpayer money:
Vouchers do not decrease education costs. Instead, tax money that would ordinarily go to public schools now pays for vouchers, thus harming public schools.

8. Vouchers do not increase education choice:
Voucher programs do not increase “choice” for parents because it’s the private schools that will ultimately decide whether to admit a student. These institutions are not required to give parents the information necessary to determine whether the school is meeting their children’s needs.

9. Vouchers lead to private schools of questionable quality:
In Milwaukee and Cleveland, the availability of vouchers led con artists to create fly-by-night schools in order to bilk the public purse.

10. Vouchers distract from the real issue of reform:
Voucher plans usually allow a small percentage of children to leave public schools for enrollment in private schools. This does nothing for the large percentage of youngsters left behind. Most public schools do a very good job; those that don’t should be fixed, not abandoned. Vouchers become an excuse for politicians to dodge issues like adequate funding, class size, teacher training and curriculum reform.

Ninety percent of American children attend public schools. Our focus should be on fully funding and improving this system, not siphoning money into private systems.

https://www.au.org/church-state/feb...reasons-why-private-school-vouchers-should-be



Trying to make education for the rich only will fail. If I were a conservative who works for a living I would reject vouchers. But then again, rich only education is part of conservative ideology, and we all know how those filthy unionized teachers in public schools vote and as conservatives we can't have educators voting against conservative ideology.

Face it cons, its all about trying to destroy labor unions and making a buck off of 1st graders.