Holders war on private school vouchers...

[Mott the Hoople]

And what is your suggestion for improving failing inner city public schools?

And I'm glad you made your position clear that the teachers union is more important than children's education.

Please, spare me the red herring about teachers unions. Teachers unions aren't even remotely part of the problem.

How about try this as a solution. Try supporting your schools at a community and State level. How about providing them adequate funding? How about providing them with adequate numbers of teachers? How about providing them community support?

Again, I ask you, don't you believe in your community? Don't you want to support your community? Don't you want to invest in your community to make it a better place to live? What happened to civic mindedness?

Undermining universal public education is madness. It is short sightedness on a monumental level.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Spending billions on NCLB and small amounts on vouchers isn't how I would go about destroying public education if that was my goal.

The only thing you need to do to destroy public education is to not support your local public schools.

 

[Jarod]

Circumstances are different for everyone.

My stepson had a very difficult adolescence (two deaths in the immediate family among other problems).

I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have dropped out of school altogether if not for the online option.

Far better that he at least got his diploma from the online school than no diploma at all.

In some RARE circumstances it might be the right choice, but the way its being done here its simply a way to make money at the expense of education.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

No dude that's such b.s. "Systematically underfunding" schools? That's the only call we hear "we need more money for schools", "we need more money for schools" and then when the money arrives and the results don't follow we hear "we need more money for schools". It's an endless cycle. Look at you being a conservative, trying to conserve the status quo, afraid to make any changes to our education system that is quite clearly failing a large number of minority students.

To want to "progress" as is in being progressive one can make changes and improvements to our school system without destroying it which is the boogey man you are trying to use to prevent any change.

Like hell it isn't. The primary instrument to pay for public education across the nation are local property taxes. Where I live the typical local property tax on a 2,000 sq.ft. home is around $2,500 annually. In Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana and South Carolina, four of the States with the worst public school in the nation, the typical property tax of such a home is around $550 to $600 dollars.

So don't give me that crap of constant calls for more money. It isn't a factual argument. If your local public schools are failing it's because you and your neighbors are not civic minded enough nor responsible enough to fund and support them adequately.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yeah, Obama is pushing charter schools because he hates public education and wants it to fail.

Kids don't all learn the same way yet you want every child to go through a one size fits all education format. You refuse to address the failings of our inner-city schools other than they need more money and I hate public education. That's a load of crap. If I hated public education I wouldn't have volunteered teaching at a low income minority high school for a number of years. You have let your ideology get in the way of what is best for the kids that need the most help and that is unfortunate.

And that's a complete strawman argument from you. No one is calling for "one size fits all". We're calling to support your local schools and to support your teachers as professionals. It is you who are advocating undermining public education by underfunding it. That's unconscionable and you should be ashamed of yourself. You know better as you were raised better.

 

[leaningright]

In some RARE circumstances it might be the right choice, but the way its being done here its simply a way to make money at the expense of education.

I would agree with that as well. Under rare circumstances it can be an asset but it should not be the first choice. We have had 7 kids the lasts three years opt for online Ed. Six of them were just lazy and couldn't meet the attendance requirement set by the state. (And I do know this to be a fact...just sayin) People might say something about the attendance requirement being unnecessary but I think it is a good thing. Most of these kids have to learn to show up for work.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

All I know is is that there aren't any easy fixes to the problem. When you pull money out of a school system the whole community suffers. Our budget has been decreased by $200K over the past several years. Where I was once freed up to teach some programming classes, AP Physics and such, I am now the only math teacher left here and must teach all of the required classes. Those other classes had to be eliminated. Where we once had 3 custodians, on of whom doubled as a bus mechanic, we now have one part time custodian. I am forced to drive a bus before and after school because those custodian positions also included bus driving. Let me tell you, if you are doing the teaching thing right you are wore out and in no way should be driving a bus ... especially in the PM. So cutting money out of a school system for any reason makes it really tough. I will say that in all of this our High School Math scores are still among the top in the state. It is our elementary that is having problems. They are not a failing school but are having difficulty keeping up with the standards...and yes, some of it is due to poor teaching.

Which brings me to this:

If my child was in a failing school and I wasn't able to supplement his education enough to overcome it, I would want the option to move him to a different district. In Oklahoma, we essentially have an open transfer situation until high school except when it comes to sports. The problem is that some districts are filled to the tipping point and are still operating short staffed so they are very likely to decline the transfer unless the student is a good student already.

Like I said, I don't pretend there is an easy fix to the situation and honestly do not know what the answer is. Vouchers... I can see those being a decent idea but can also see them being abused if not closely watched. Also, there is the bottom line of vouchers taking money out of the public school system. Also, you have to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers.

I am going to retire in 3 years, Lord willing. Not necessarily because I am tired of teaching, I really still like it, but because of all of the requirements that have been placed on us, especially Math and Science teachers, by the state. It has become extremely stressful the last 8 or 10 years.

Well think of all the positive impact you've made on young people through out your career and it's a damned shame that you haven't received the support your efforts as a professional deserve!

I understand about you wanting choices and to be honest with you, I wouldn't live in a community that had failing schools cause the community won't support them. I would move to a better community if I had too. When I worked in Blytheville, Arkansas education wasn't an issue as I have no kids. Had I had kids, I would have never taken the job and moved my family there as the private schools were awful and the public schools were completely horrendous. I would not handicap a child of mine like that.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Ban private schools.

LOL I wouldn't go that far. Private schools are fine. Just don't use public funds to finance them.

 

[leaningright]

Well think of all the positive impact you've made on young people through out your career and it's a damned shame that you haven't received the support your efforts as a professional deserve!

I understand about you wanting choices and to be honest with you, I wouldn't live in a community that had failing schools cause the community won't support them. I would move to a better community if I had too. When I worked in Blytheville, Arkansas education wasn't an issue as I have no kids. Had I had kids, I would have never taken the job and moved my family there as the private schools were awful and the public schools were completely horrendous. I would not handicap a child of mine like that.

Interesting Mott, this is the advice that I give parents who are considering a move for employment. Check out the school and of course, the church in the prospective community. Yes, I would definitely not keep my kids in a failing school.

 

[Phantasmal]

No dude that's such b.s. "Systematically underfunding" schools? That's the only call we hear "we need more money for schools", "we need more money for schools" and then when the money arrives and the results don't follow we hear "we need more money for schools". It's an endless cycle. Look at you being a conservative, trying to conserve the status quo, afraid to make any changes to our education system that is quite clearly failing a large number of minority students.

To want to "progress" as is in being progressive one can make changes and improvements to our school system without destroying it which is the boogey man you are trying to use to prevent any change.

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi...8,d.cGE#search="inner ity schools lack funds"

 

[Mott the Hoople]

LOL, now you are just trolling.

No I'm not. NCLB is insidious. Ask any teacher. The bar that is set over time becomes impossible to reach forcing most public schools into "failed" status.

It is an attack on the social fabric of this nation as public schools are our great social equalizer. They give all young people an opportunity to succeed if they receive a quality education.

 

[tekkychick]

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/08/26/the-disparate-impact-of-holders-war-on-private-schools/

Why does Holder want to keep students from getting a better education?

Why does Holder want to prevent parents from choosing which school their kids go to?

Anyone can send their kids to a private school if they want. Holder won't stop them.

We just don't need to subsidize them with tax dollars.

Many private schools are religious and don't teach the science standards that other schools teach - we shoudn't give money to sub-standard schools.

The really GOOD private schools are so pricey - $20K a year - vouchers aren't going to help.

And how many openings are there in private schools?

Our nation has had a strong public school system for generations; we need to invest in it.

 

[tekkychick]

Please, spare me the red herring about teachers unions. Teachers unions aren't even remotely part of the problem.

How about try this as a solution. Try supporting your schools at a community and State level. How about providing them adequate funding? How about providing them with adequate numbers of teachers? How about providing them community support?

Again, I ask you, don't you believe in your community? Don't you want to support your community? Don't you want to invest in your community to make it a better place to live? What happened to civic mindedness?

Undermining universal public education is madness. It is short sightedness on a monumental level.

Well said!

 

[tekkychick]

I believe that for some Republicans it is what they see as the first step toward eliminating universal free education in this country.

I'd agree... first, vouchers; then start closing down public schools; and then oops - private schools cost more than the voucher and don't have enough seats anyway, but shucks, we closed down all the public schools.... tough cookies, kids, have you considered working in a sweatshop instead?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Let's see Dublin is well to do 90% white suburb. Shocking it had good public schools. Come to Oakland, CA and see the failures of the public schools here and you'll be singing a different tune.

We have the same problem in Columbus too....though probably not to the extent of Oakland. White flight to the suburbs has diverted public funding from public schools. It's a major drawback to using property taxes as the mechanism by which schools are funded locally. I'm open minded to a more equitable manor of funding our public schools but just because our current system is not equitable makes that a justification for further undermining them financially. Like I said that's madness. What we should be doing then is to find a more equitable manor in which we can fund our public schools. Granted...that's a tough nut to crack.

 

[cawacko]

And that's a complete strawman argument from you. No one is calling for "one size fits all". We're calling to support your local schools and to support your teachers as professionals. It is you who are advocating undermining public education by underfunding it. That's unconscionable and you should be ashamed of yourself. You know better as you were raised better.

No, that's exactly what you are calling for. And I grew up in a family that valued education which is why I am passionate about those who are stuck in failing schools with no options. Come spend 30 years in Oakland, CA and see the public schools I've seen and the results they have produced and then tell me I don't care about education and want schools to fail and don't care about kids. They are failing quite well on their own. So I feel quite alright with myself knowing my beliefs help support making positive changes in the education community.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I would agree with that as well. Under rare circumstances it can be an asset but it should not be the first choice. We have had 7 kids the lasts three years opt for online Ed. Six of them were just lazy and couldn't meet the attendance requirement set by the state. (And I do know this to be a fact...just sayin) People might say something about the attendance requirement being unnecessary but I think it is a good thing. Most of these kids have to learn to show up for work.

What was it that the actor Woody Allen said? Most of success is just showing up.

 

[cawacko]

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi...8,d.cGE#search="inner ity schools lack funds"

Cliffs?

 

[Bonestorm]

We have the same problem in Columbus too....though probably not to the extent of Oakland. White flight to the suburbs has diverted public funding from public schools. It's a major drawback to using property taxes as the mechanism by which schools are funded locally. I'm open minded to a more equitable manor of funding our public schools but just because our current system is not equitable makes that a justification for further undermining them financially. Like I said that's madness. What we should be doing then is to find a more equitable manor in which we can fund our public schools. Granted...that's a tough nut to crack.

You could do what Vermont did with Act 60. Only downside is that it would never happen anywhere but Vermont.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

No, that's exactly what you are calling for. And I grew up in a family that valued education which is why I am passionate about those who are stuck in failing schools with no options. Come spend 30 years in Oakland, CA and see the public schools I've seen and the results they have produced and then tell me I don't care about education and want schools to fail and don't care about kids. They are failing quite well on their own. So I feel quite alright with myself knowing my beliefs help support making positive changes in the education community.

And I've seen the same thing in the south where white conservatives have systematically starved public schools of funding and have sent their white kids to segregation acadamies and call for vouchers to subsidize sending their kids to private schools and thus asking us to subsidize segregation, while at the mean time they starve the public schools of funding as why should they pay for schools they don't send their kids too?

Look, we both believe in the same thing just different methods. I'm all for trying new and unique methods of improving education in truly failing schools as long as those methods don't include undermining public educations funding. Vouchers and Charter schools, for the most part, do undermine public education.