I Loathe Flying As A Means Of Getting Somewhere

[T. A. Gardner]

The thing is, TAG, I really don't care.

I've been abroad, experienced their rail, and had to admit,
this is something other people can do
way, way better than we in my own country can do.
In fact, they make us look like assholes.

When we really suck at something, I'm, as an American national, not content,
and we really, really suck at public sector stuff.

Lousy public transportation.
Lousy public education.
Lousy public health care.

All thanks to American conservatives who, to be honestly blunt about it,
are just not very smart people. Or particularly likeable, either.

What I see is rail works in higher population density areas of limited geographical area.

Those explain why rail doesn't work in the US.

Public transit in most urban areas doesn't work in the US because our urban areas generally lack the population density and travel nodes necessary to make it work. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

Public health care sucks in most countries, even if it is "free."

Public education in the US sucks because we let the federal government run it. In fact, increasingly, a public-private system like charter schools has worked far better.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

What I see is rail works in higher population density areas of limited geographical area.

Those explain why rail doesn't work in the US.

Public transit in most urban areas doesn't work in the US because our urban areas generally lack the population density and travel nodes necessary to make it work. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

Public health care sucks in most countries, even if it is "free."

Public education in the US sucks because we let the federal government run it. In fact, increasingly, a public-private system like charter schools has worked far better.

We have different values and thus different ideas.
I share none of yours and you share none of mine.
Both of us, further, are representative of very large factions.

Right now, we're witnessing this serious incompatibility rapidly bringing down the republic.
In the end, it will probably be for the best,
but in the interim, until the new world manifests itself,
we're in for some brutal times.

Part of it is a result of World War II.
Europe got pummeled, but then got to rebuild itself as a modern continent.

America didn't, but lives a century behind the times as a result.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

Agree with TSA.
Disagree with rail.

Interior Americans don't have the mindset for public transportation.
I'll agree to that.
They're all just hayseed pickup drivers at heart.

Urban people do, however.

I do not fly to NY anymore, we use Amtrak

 

[cawacko]

We have different values and thus different ideas.
I share none of yours and you share none of mine.
Both of us, further, are representative of very large factions.

Right now, we're witnessing this serious incompatibility rapidly bringing down the republic.
In the end, it will probably be for the best,
but in the interim, until the new world manifests itself,
we're in for some brutal times.

Part of it is a result of World War II.
Europe got pummeled, but then got to rebuild itself as a modern continent.

America didn't, but lives a century behind the times as a result.

Eh, in such a polarized time it's easy to want to agree with the bolded but I still disagree. People in this country are far more alike than not. (And come to a place like San Francisco where nationally people agree on many things but local politics are a blood sport and even if almost all share the Democrat party label they attack each other just as hard as national Republicans and Democrats do to each other.)

San Francisco is not in a good place right now but it has been written off before and always come back, just like we will now. Same with America. People want to write this country's epitaph but we will rebound and continue to be the world's leader and beacon of hope.

 

[AProudLefty]

And, just think, Biden and the Left want you to be forced to use pubic transport 100% of the time...

False.

 

[AProudLefty]

Then why the push for high-speed rail? Why the massive funding for expansion of public transit systems like light rail?

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/06/984464351/as-biden-pushes-major-rail-investments-rail-amtraks-2035-map-has-people-talking

Biden admin. announces largest-ever investment in public transit

The investment represents a 58% increase from 2021

ny1.com

FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Takes Action to Accelerate America’s Clean Transportation Future | The White House

Leading U.S. Companies Join the Federal Government in Drive to Make Business Travel Cleaner, Save Taxpayer Dollars, Tackle the Climate Crisis, and Boost

www.whitehouse.gov

Biden to require feds to take public transit, other ‘green’ options when traveling

Federal employees should also consider bike sharing or not traveling at all under new guidance.

www.govexec.com

https://www.transit.dot.gov/about/news/biden-harris-administration-recommends-advancing-eighteen-major-transit-projects

It is YOU that is obliviously fucking stupid. The Left loves public transit so long as they aren't the ones forced to use it.

That isn't forcing the public. Try again.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

That isn't forcing the public. Try again.

President Biden’s $2 trillion infrastructure plan, unveiled this week, represents one of the most ambitious efforts yet to challenge the centrality of the automobile in American life, by proposing to tilt federal spending far more toward public transportation and coax more people out of their cars.

America Has Long Favored Cars Over Trains and Buses. Can Biden Change That? (Published 2021)

The president’s infrastructure plan tries to break from the past by shifting spending away from new roads and toward public transit. It won’t be easy.

www.nytimes.com

 

[AProudLefty]

President Biden’s $2 trillion infrastructure plan, unveiled this week, represents one of the most ambitious efforts yet to challenge the centrality of the automobile in American life, by proposing to tilt federal spending far more toward public transportation and coax more people out of their cars.

America Has Long Favored Cars Over Trains and Buses. Can Biden Change That? (Published 2021)

The president’s infrastructure plan tries to break from the past by shifting spending away from new roads and toward public transit. It won’t be easy.

www.nytimes.com

Coaxing is not forcing. Sorry.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

People in this country are far more alike than not.

We're experiencing different things from different vantage points, I must assume.

 

[AProudLefty]

President Biden’s $2 trillion infrastructure plan, unveiled this week, represents one of the most ambitious efforts yet to challenge the centrality of the automobile in American life, by proposing to tilt federal spending far more toward public transportation and coax more people out of their cars.

America Has Long Favored Cars Over Trains and Buses. Can Biden Change That? (Published 2021)

The president’s infrastructure plan tries to break from the past by shifting spending away from new roads and toward public transit. It won’t be easy.

www.nytimes.com

I repeat... coaxing isn't forcing as you alleged.

 

[cawacko]

President Biden’s $2 trillion infrastructure plan, unveiled this week, represents one of the most ambitious efforts yet to challenge the centrality of the automobile in American life, by proposing to tilt federal spending far more toward public transportation and coax more people out of their cars.

America Has Long Favored Cars Over Trains and Buses. Can Biden Change That? (Published 2021)

The president’s infrastructure plan tries to break from the past by shifting spending away from new roads and toward public transit. It won’t be easy.

www.nytimes.com

Taking Biden out of it the idea of urban areas being less dependent on cars is not a bad thing. Our cities used to be far more walkable until the automobile came along and certain cities catered far more towards them, trying to compete with the suburbs by tearing down buildings and putting up parking lots instead. The result was a lose/lose, cities still lost business to the 'burbs and the downtowns themselves became less desirable as a result.

It's definitely a local thing rather than federal one (laws like removing parking minimums etc.). But it's plays a huge role in the high cost of housing (removing mandatory parking spots in areas near public transportation and housing becomes more affordable). Do that then it's the free market at work (if people don't want to live in such a development then it will fail and the developer will lose money).

 

[Althea]

The gate Nazis are the worst (TSA). Total overkill.

Long-distance passenger rail is insanely stupid for the US. Not only would installing it cost a fortune, but running such a system would too and it would be worse than flying.

I just took a trip to Vegas. TSA seems to hire people who are only going to be sarcastic and condescending.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Coaxing is not forcing. Sorry.

Like a frog in the pot with the water getting hotter, the Left always ends up starting at "coax" and ends at "you will or else!"

 

[Althea]

Then why the push for high-speed rail? Why the massive funding for expansion of public transit systems like light rail?

Because millions of people would be more than happy to use it. Especially given the way flights are unreliable nowadays.

 

[AProudLefty]

Like a frog in the pot with the water getting hotter, the Left always ends up starting at "coax" and ends at "you will or else!"

Lol

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Because millions of people would be more than happy to use it. Especially given the way flights are unreliable nowadays.

Not likely. People that often travel coast-to-coast would hate it. A trip that used to take 4 to 6 hours would now take 4 to 6 days. That's an insane difference. The cost would also be much higher.

For example, if the train took just 4 days to go coast-to-coast, and you could previously fly there in 6 hours, and the ticket costs were identical, the train would still cost more. You'd have to pay for 4 days' worth of meals alone, for starters. Then there's the opportunity costs involved. What do you lose taking 8 days for a round trip versus two 6-hour flights?

Trains make ZERO sense for long distance travel in the US. That's why when it was the market, not the government, deciding how people would travel air travel became the norm and passenger rail all but disappeared. For shorter distances under a few hundred miles, a high-speed line with very limited stops might be acceptable in the densest population corridors like the US East Coast from about Virginia to New York.

Of course, given the infrastructure costs of building rail lines and gaining right-of-way, the cost of building a rail line from A to B in a high population density area is going to be insane. Cheaper to build an airport or three that take up far less land.

 

[Althea]

Not likely. People that often travel coast-to-coast would hate it. A trip that used to take 4 to 6 hours would now take 4 to 6 days. That's an insane difference. The cost would also be much higher.

For example, if the train took just 4 days to go coast-to-coast, and you could previously fly there in 6 hours, and the ticket costs were identical, the train would still cost more. You'd have to pay for 4 days' worth of meals alone, for starters. Then there's the opportunity costs involved. What do you lose taking 8 days for a round trip versus two 6-hour flights?

Trains make ZERO sense for long distance travel in the US. That's why when it was the market, not the government, deciding how people would travel air travel became the norm and passenger rail all but disappeared. For shorter distances under a few hundred miles, a high-speed line with very limited stops might be acceptable in the densest population corridors like the US East Coast from about Virginia to New York.

Of course, given the infrastructure costs of building rail lines and gaining right-of-way, the cost of building a rail line from A to B in a high population density area is going to be insane. Cheaper to build an airport or three that take up far less land.

LOL. Once again citing false equivalents. High speed rail would not necessarily be used to travel 2500 miles. Shorter trips would be much more desirable via train than plane.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

No control…over anything.

We're heading to Vermont from MI tomorrow. We chose to drive the 15 hours because flights suck so bad. Because our airport is very tiny, and so is theirs, a 4.5-hour direct flight becomes 12-19 hours. Why not drive and have peace and quiet and no cooties from other passengers, no long layovers, and plenty of leg room?

 

[Into the Night]

I'm not a fan either especially nowadays. Cramped expensive seats with smelly rude people.
But I also hate driving.

Tough gettin' off the couch, eh?

 

[Into the Night]

It was way better back before deregulation....I now avoid if at all possible...in fact I do my best to avoid leaving my oasis at all.

But I am currently waiting for my daughter in a restaurant in Tacoma, our favorite restaurant in Tacoma in fact.

I don't think you realize just how thick the regulations are concerning airlines.