If they don't have a gun... don't tell the cops they do...

Watermark said:
You know, you usually only need 1 or 2 to disable them. 4 will kill them every time.

20 is just stupid anger.
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20 would be "stupid anger" if it all came from one gun. A glock would have 15 shots, they'd have to stop to reload. However, that was not the case here.

Cops are not trained to "shoot to wound" or to "incapacitate" they are taught to aim for the trunk and to shoot multiple times.

This accounts for the very real fact that even highly trained cops miss often and it is coupled with the past where cops did try to "incapacitate" and wound up dead for their trouble. Shooting the gun out of the hand only happens in movies and on "24".
 
Damocles said:
20 would be "stupid anger" if it all came from one gun. A glock would have 15 shots, they'd have to stop to reload. However, that was not the case here.

Cops are not trained to "shoot to wound" or to "incapacitate" they are taught to aim for the trunk and to shoot multiple times.

This accounts for the very real fact that even highly trained cops miss often and it is coupled with the past where cops did try to "incapacitate" and wound up dead for their trouble. Shooting the gun out of the hand only happens in movies and on "24".
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Shooting the gun is impossible.

Shoot them in the chest once or twice and they'll be down. If you didn't hit the heart they aren't dead.
 
Damocles said:
20 would be "stupid anger" if it all came from one gun. A glock would have 15 shots, they'd have to stop to reload. However, that was not the case here.

Cops are not trained to "shoot to wound" or to "incapacitate" they are taught to aim for the trunk and to shoot multiple times.

This accounts for the very real fact that even highly trained cops miss often and it is coupled with the past where cops did try to "incapacitate" and wound up dead for their trouble. Shooting the gun out of the hand only happens in movies and on "24".
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Thank you! That is what I've been trying to say. If cops were trained to incapacitate, they would probably use their firearms much more frequently. As it is, a cop will try any possible means of controlling the situation before drawing his weapon, if for no other reason than the paperwork involved.
 
Watermark said:
Shooting the gun is impossible.

Shoot them in the chest once or twice and they'll be down. If you didn't hit the heart they aren't dead.
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You don't have to hit the heart to kill someone. You could hit the heart, a major artery, a major vein, a lung, both lungs, something vital like the stomach. This is all aiming for the torso.

I assure you, as I have used handguns before (target practice), that four shots are very reasonable, and I imagine in a tense situation it would be absolutely acceptable.
 
Watermark said:
Shooting the gun is impossible.

Shoot them in the chest once or twice and they'll be down. If you didn't hit the heart they aren't dead.
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They are not trained to only shoot twice for the reasons previously assigned. A well-trained cop shooting at a moving target during times of stress hits their target only 40% of the time. A quick four-shot pretty much is the standard of their training to ensure that the danger is subdued with at least one shot.
 
Watermark said:
These guys were unusually accurate.
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In this case the target was advancing towards them and much closer than most of their usual targets. They were definitely statistically more accurate, but it is always relative to the situation.

Muscle-memorization and practice would practically ensure once they started they each would fire at least four shots.
 
Damocles said:
In this case the target was advancing towards them and much closer than most of their usual targets. They were definitely statistically more accurate, but it is always relative to the situation.

Muscle-memorization and practice would practically ensure once they started they each would fire four shots.
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Indeed. I dare you to find a video of a police officer using his weapon that he does not fire 3-4 times or more. Any shooting I have ever seen has been several shots from any involved officers.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Before we land awkwardly on the wrong foot here, please to remember that I've two stepsons who are cops. ;)
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You have to understand that Watermark is under the impression that cops in America would be more effective if completely unarmed, because only fascists carry a weapon.
 
gonzojournals said:
Indeed. I dare you to find a video of a police officer using his weapon that he does not fire 3-4 times or more. Any shooting I have ever seen has been several shots from any involved officers.
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Generally its shoot only when you have to and at that point its shoot to kill. Could it be any other way?
 
Beefy said:
Generally its shoot only when you have to and at that point its shoot to kill. Could it be any other way?
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No, it could not be. I support these officers completely--- it is unfortunate that the situation is what it is, but I blame the caller more than the officers. Also, who meets the police carrying anything?

On any occasion where I have had to deal with the police, I am always sure to have my hands empty and in sight, without making any fishy movements.
 
Beefy said:
Generally its shoot only when you have to and at that point its shoot to kill. Could it be any other way?
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In San Francisco, at least, they're taught that they should never draw their weapons unless they fear for their own lives or the lives of others and should never fire their weapons unless they're intending to kill.

Handguns have one and only one purpose: to kill human beings.
 
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