Ignorance and the Bible

domer76 said:
This is Idaho. Not too many here. Lots of backward rednecks though.

There was one kid that I never knew was Jewish. Went from 1-12 with him. It never was something anybody considered then. In retrospect, I wondered how he suffered through all the Christian bullshit we endured then. Including passing out Gideon bibles reading them in the classroom.
Click to expand...
Okay, I can see how Idaho has a low Jewish population
 
Cypress said:
No one reads the Old Testament more strictly and more literally than militant atheists and conservative evangelical Bible thumpers. Everyone else carefully considers literary style and context.

There's no archeological evidence of mass destruction of towns and cities in the Biblical lands of the Levant for the time period described.

The tribes who supposedly were wiped out in the OT show up again later chronologically in the Bible, demonstrating they were not all killed and wiped out.

The authors of the Bible obviously used hyperbole, literary licence, exaggeration when describing certain historical events. Those are not unusual literary styles.
Click to expand...

Do you go around telling Jewish people their history books are lies? If not, why not?
 
Cypress said:
a fetish for complaining about the Hebrew Bible
Click to expand...

Are you capable of discussing the Bible without getting hyperdefensive? "fetish"? Why all the personal attacks? Do you know your position is weaker and you resort to just attacks?

I don't get it. You seem generally capable in these conversations up to a point.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Especially considering the stories were written by relatively unsophisticated people. There's wisdom to be learned but stories of miracles, magic and the like are misperceptions at best. Walking on water? No. Walking on a sandbar? Sure. Raising the dead? No. Recognizing someone is in a coma and arousing them? Okay.

Why the atheists get their panties in a bunch over this is amusing.
Click to expand...
You're right.

Reading the Bible strictly literally should be left to bone-headed conservative evangelicals.

There's no archaeological evidence of massive destruction of cities and towns, there's no archaeological evidence of collections of mass graves in Israel at the time of the biblical Deuteronomistic history.

The tribes who were supposedly wiped out wholesale make appearances later on chronologically in the Bible. They obviously weren't all wiped out in an apocalyptic genocide.

The sophisticated reader who considers context and literary style realizes that the Jewish scribes of the Babylonian captivity era who were compiling and editing these ancient Bronze age story traditions, were using hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point.
 
Cypress said:
Okay, I can see how Idaho has a low Jewish population
Click to expand...
Jews constitute less than 2% of the US population of over 330M. About 10M total with most living in the NE. Idaho has 2,125, about 0.1%. compared to Idaho's total population of 2M.


welcome-israel.com

Jewish population in the USA by state in 2024

A breakdown of the Jewish population across US states, highlighting the largest Jewish communities and demographics.
welcome-israel.com
They have a direct impact on various layers of American culture, infiltrating the academic world, the social sphere, and certainly science. The approximate number of Jews in the United States is about 7,2 (is confirmed by 2022 census) to 10 million (which, incidentally, also makes it the country with the largest Jewish population in the world; the U.S. can even compete with Israel in this regard, as it has about nine million ethnic Jews as of 2024), most of whom are Ashkenazi.
heat-map-e1727953602480.jpg
 
Cypress said:
.....The sophisticated reader who considers context and literary style realizes that the Jewish scribes of the Babylonian captivity era who were compiling and editing these ancient Bronze age story traditions, were using hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point.
Click to expand...
Agreed on readers considering context and writing styles when reading ancient records but this is often very difficult for people, especially very young people, who have an agenda to condemn religion.
 
gmark77 said:
Do you go around telling Jewish people their history books are lies? If not, why not?
Click to expand...
Hyperbole isn't a lie.

If I say the NFL Eagles slaughtered the Chiefs, it's hyperbole, it's not a lie.

There was undoubtedly conflict between the Israelites and rival tribes, which may have involved some violence. Wholesale genocide? There's zero evidence of that.
 
Cypress said:
Hyperbole isn't a lie.

If I say the NFL Eagles slaughtered the Chiefs, it's hyperbole, it's not a lie.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Hyperbole is descriptive. A lie is claiming to be something one is not such as claiming the Chiefs beat the Eagles in the last Superbowl when they did not.

Never trust a liar.

a4al16.jpg
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. Hyperbole is descriptive. A lie is claiming to be something one is not such as claiming the Chiefs beat the Eagles in the last Superbowl when they did not.

Never trust a liar.

a4al16.jpg
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think there are some atheist websites out there that cherry pick the most outrageous statements in the Hebrew Bible, without ever once considering context and literary style.
 
Cypress said:
Agreed. I think there are some atheist websites out there that cherry pick the most outrageous statements in the Hebrew Bible, without ever once considering context and literary style.
Click to expand...
Agreed. As our 12 year old atheist keeps doing, cherry-picking the Bible is a favorite activity of religious fanatics be they atheist or theist. Even obviously secular fanatics like White Nationalists cherry-pick the parts that suit their agenda without considering the context of the entire document.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. As our 12 year old atheist keeps doing, cherry-picking the Bible is a favorite activity of religious fanatics be they atheist or theist. Even obviously secular fanatics like White Nationalists cherry-pick the parts that suit their agenda without considering the context of the entire document.
Click to expand...
You're right.

I would also say that even literature which contains mythical elements do not constitute a "lie".

The entire Bhaghavad Gita is mythical, but it's making a point about moral duty and virtue.
 
domer76 said:
You’re unaware of that passage or merely wish to ignore the truth of it?
Click to expand...

Personally I love the middle bit of Job. It's a wonderful treatise on "why do bad things happen to good people", but the bad parts of Job are the set up (the "bet") and the denouement (where God basically says "I can do whatever the fuck I want to to you and you don't get a say". That is awful, simply awful theology.

But the middle part where Job laments the horrors seemingly mysteriously being piled on him, it's a great meditation on that. We all have times when things just go bonkers wrong.

For that reason the middle part of Job is one of my favorite books of the Bible but I hate the beginning and ending of the book.
 
Cypress said:
You're right.

I would also say that even literature which contains mythical elements do not constitute a "lie".

The entire Bhaghavad Gita is mythical, but it's making a point about moral duty and virtue.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Parables and stories are not lies anymore than Aesop's Fables are a lie. Additionally, some ancient texts, especially the Bible, are more than a religious text. It was often the only book/scrolls possessed by a tribe or village and, therefore gave guidance not in just religion and morality but health (diet) and legal codes.

Immature atheists and other religious haters or abusers refuse to see the overall picture of what life was like in those days. They cherry-pick only the parts that support their narrow POV.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top