Immutable Facts

Where does it say that in the second ammendment?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

and the below explain further:

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"
The Founding Fathers on Arms

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8
The Founding Fathers on Maintaining Freedom

"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
Edmund Burke
British Statesman, 1784

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison
 
We had no full time standing army when the second ammendment was written.
We do now and have National guard units.
A militia is no longer needed.
 
We had no full time standing army when the second ammendment was written.
We do now and have National guard units.
A militia is no longer needed.
the national guard is a standing army. the militia is the people. the 2nd Amendment is not about the national guard nor is it about a government controlled military force
 
we can see that. pointing it out is basically trolling and just perpetuates flamewars. be mature and move on from it.


So now the guy who started the whole "Takers" flamebait nonsense and who trolls the gun debate with his nonsensical claim that the right to bear arms is more important than a child's life, presumes to tell others to "be mature and move on"?

One set of rules for me and another for thee?
 
The life of every creature is in its blood. Leviticus 17:14
The fetus is normally infused with blood at around the 11th day, 'life begins at conception' is not correct, according to the bible.

That's your OPINION of what the Bible says. This has nothing to do with immutable facts. Life begins at the moment of conception, when a unique organism forms. That's an immutable fact, it doesn't matter what your opinion is.
 
That's your OPINION of what the Bible says. This has nothing to do with immutable facts. Life begins at the moment of conception, when a unique organism forms. That's an immutable fact, it doesn't matter what your opinion is.
thats not my opinion, its the actual verse of the bible. therefore, life does not begin at conception.
 
then i'd like to see your source for life begins at coneption

You don't need sources for immutable facts. When two cells fuse and generate a new cell, the life process has begun. Now you can have a different OPINION on that, and you can attempt to redefine parameters and words, you can cling to the Bible and refuse to accept biology, but the immutable fact remains, life can only begin at one point, and that point is conception. Whether it is viable life, biblical life, sentient life, sustainable life, or inconsequential life, does not matter.
 
You don't need sources for immutable facts. When two cells fuse and generate a new cell, the life process has begun. Now you can have a different OPINION on that, and you can attempt to redefine parameters and words, you can cling to the Bible and refuse to accept biology, but the immutable fact remains, life can only begin at one point, and that point is conception. Whether it is viable life, biblical life, sentient life, sustainable life, or inconsequential life, does not matter.
so this is just your opinion then
 
so this is just your opinion then

No. An immutable fact is something that supersedes my opinion. That's the definition of immutable. Biology determines when the process of life begins, and it's at the moment the sperm and egg cell produce another living cell. This has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion, and everything to do with immutable fact.
 
No. An immutable fact is something that supersedes my opinion. That's the definition of immutable. Biology determines when the process of life begins, and it's at the moment the sperm and egg cell produce another living cell. This has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion, and everything to do with immutable fact.
if biology determines when the process of life begins, then it shouldn't be difficult to post a link for the source of your opinion.
 
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