Is it crazy to distrust the official 911 story?

Superfreak said:
Again, you are ignoring the fact that they DID attend flight training down in Florida.
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The training they got in Florida was on a flight simulator and eveyone of them failed to have the capacity to even fly a small trainer Cessna.

How much intelligence is required to know that you can't play video games then go drive a tank or fly sophistcated large aircraft without specific training?

Even experienced pilots who have flown 737's need additional training to be able to fly a 757, or 767.

get real.
 
blackascoal said:
Then that solves it FOR YOU, doesn't it?

Your brother and the pilots you know against pilots with far more credibility for people who don't know your brother or the pilots you know.

Since I don't know your brother or the pilots you know, why would I believe them compared to American heroes and pilots who have long established and distinguished records?
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Those pilots have no more credibility than my brother. You assume "credibility" to be "agrees with you". I don't assume that. I read articles, worried, then asked my brother. A friend's mother, and some Navy pilots that I still have contact with to find out more.

You read a few articles, worried, assumed they were right, spoke to no pilots and tried to insult me. Thanks. It isn't working.
 
Damocles said:
The stand down order was just a portion of that ineptitude.

The removal of evidence that could link back to things they could have used to link the problems together is a sign of a coverup of that ineptitude.

He is creating a website that links to professional opinions, he identifies his sources and he links to them as well. Including the actual peer reviewed sources that you ignore for whatever sourcing you wish to give credence to.
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I find it hard to believe that you did not support the invasion of Iraq, nor that you didn't believe that Saddam had WMD.

The stand-down order was issued BEFORE 9/11, it wasn't a cover-up
 
blackascoal said:
I find it hard to believe that you did not support the invasion of Iraq, nor that you didn't believe that Saddam had WMD.

The stand-down order was issued BEFORE 9/11, it wasn't a cover-up
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It was a portion of ineptitude. When they should have been ramping up they were playing other games. A sign of ineptitude is not a portion of the cover up, it was what they were trying to cover up.

And I don't care if you find anything hard to believe about me. I find it hard to believe that you would accept any evidence to the contrary from your belief.
 
blackascoal said:
NO my brother, it is you who is sad and seriously in denial. I would never want to be so blind/controlled that my mind can't interpret what is clearly in front of my face. WTC7 was imploded and exhibited all the signs of an implosion, including caving in from the middle so it would land in it's own footprints .. just as the towers did and falling at free fall speed.



Cavemen who couldn't fly a Cessna .. executing flight manuevers that fighter pilots couldn't do .. in large aircraft they were totally unfamilar with, and in fact had never been in.
Dude ..

And don't pretend that all the experts agree with the fairy-tale, because they do not and you know it. There are lots of engineers, scientists, military and intelligence officers, and pilots who can attest to the bullshit ..
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I deleted most of your diatribe as it was pure nonsense...as for the comment above: Fact the Leaders/pilots received training and completed their Private Pilots license requirements...they also received training in flight simulators for the aircraft used in the attack...and the leader of the group was a Engineer...not exactly a dunce as you are claiming! Being a pilot myself...it would not take fighter pilot skills to aim a commercial jetliner at a large target such as the towers...you are all wet...Blackascoal!
 
Damocles said:
Those pilots have no more credibility than my brother. You assume "credibility" to be "agrees with you". I don't assume that. I read articles, worried, then asked my brother. A friend's mother, and some Navy pilots that I still have contact with to find out more.

You read a few articles, worried, assumed they were right, spoke to no pilots and tried to insult me. Thanks. It isn't working.
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I don't know your brother. He has no credibility with me, nor anyone else that doesn't know him. Why would you expect that he would.

I read articles, researched the issues, corresponded with Captain Russ Wittenberg ...
30,000+ Total Flight Time
707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777
Pan Am, United
United States Air Force (ret)
Over 100 Combat Missions Flown
Has time in:
- N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
- N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

... talked to other pilots and experts at the 9/11 Omission Hearings in D.C. where I spoke to ex-CIA Officer David Ray Griffin, ex-FBI Agent Sybil Edmonds, Mike Ruppert, and others BEFORE coming to my conclusions.

Stop pretending that you are the only one here that knows how to research or that has the intelligence to dig and investigate.

I'm sure I have been involved more than you have given that IT WAS MY JOB to be involved in the research.

If what your brother tells you is fine with you, then I'm happy for you, but that means nothing to me when I've spoken to and researched the statements of people far more involved and credentialed than you or your brother.

Why would you expect anything different?
 
Battleborne said:
I deleted most of your diatribe as it was pure nonsense...as for the comment above: Fact the Leaders/pilots received training and completed their Private Pilots license requirements...they also received training in flight simulators for the aircraft used in the attack...and the leader of the group was a Engineer...not exactly a dunce as you are claiming! Being a pilot myself...it would not take fighter pilot skills to aim a commercial jetliner at a large target such as the towers...you are all wet...Blackascoal!
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Get the fuck outta here .. Mr. Ex-policeman, ex-pilot, ex-CIA agent, ex-military officer, ex-whatever you can dream up, and current-fraud.
 
blackascoal said:
I don't know your brother. He has no credibility with me, nor anyone else that doesn't know him. Why would you expect that he would.

I read articles, researched the issues, corresponded with Captain Russ Wittenberg ...
30,000+ Total Flight Time
707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777
Pan Am, United
United States Air Force (ret)
Over 100 Combat Missions Flown
Has time in:
- N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
- N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

... talked to other pilots and experts at the 9/11 Omission Hearings in D.C. where I spoke to ex-CIA Officer David Ray Griffin, ex-FBI Agent Sybil Edmonds, Mike Ruppert, and others BEFORE coming to my conclusions.

Stop pretending that you are the only one here that knows how to research or that has the intelligence to dig and investigate.

I'm sure I have been involved more than you have given that IT WAS MY JOB to be involved in the research.

If what your brother tells you is fine with you, then I'm happy for you, but that means nothing to me when I've spoken to and researched the statements of people far more involved and credentialed than you or your brother.

Why would you expect anything different?
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Nobody is more "credentialed" than a person that currently flies the very planes in the discussion.

I described to you why it was, for me, a far better explanation than believing people I don't know and wouldn't know their agenda. Although first your articles were worrying to me, this particular question was well-answered, and not just by me, but by pilots in many, many articles just as 'credentialed'.

That portion of it was satisfied nicely for me by people I know to be credible.
 
Damocles said:
Nobody is more "credentialed" than a person that currently flies the very planes in the discussion.

I described to you why it was, for me, a far better explanation than believing people I don't know and wouldn't know their agenda. Although first your articles were worrying to me, this particular question was well-answered, and not just by me, but by pilots in many, many articles just as 'credentialed'.

That portion of it was satisfied nicely for me by people I know to be credible.
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Great .. works for you .. but doesn't mean shit to me. I don't know your brother.

Question: Did you support the invasion of Iraq and did you believe that Saddam had WMD?
 
That debunking guy tries too hard. That's how I know he's a liar. Plus many of his arguments sound like Judeo-Nazi Michael Medved on conspiracy day on his show. Where he comes up with logic like, "Why would they put saudi arabians in there if they wanted to blame iraq?"

"So you can point it out later, as if it disproves something."
 
blackascoal said:
Great .. works for you .. but doesn't mean shit to me. I don't know your brother.

Question: Did you support the invasion of Iraq and did you believe that Saddam had WMD?
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I did not support the invasion of Iraq. I did not believe that Iraq was a danger even if they had the weapons they spoke of.
 
I agree..............

Beefy said:
This is essentially what I believe, with the inclusion that other things have been covered up after the fact for the same reasons. Theres far more to this than we've been told.

And I'm not on "the far left". But if it makes you feel better, label me as such.
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you are not far left...just a party guy...'little kahuna' hitting on the beach babes...we joke alot and smack each other from time to time...ie:the Ron Paul nonsense...but hey ya play fair and keep hits between each other...ya never attack my family..nor do I yours...kudos...'Little Kahuna'
 
Hummm..............

blackascoal said:
Get the fuck outta here .. Mr. Ex-policeman, ex-pilot, ex-CIA agent, ex-military officer, ex-whatever you can dream up, and current-fraud.
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one of your comments are true...however...current pilot,retired LE officer, Vietnam era vet...LtandSgt,never a Cia Agent and never claimed to be...however I was a Intelligence Officer for the Department of Treasury,USCS...worked anti-terrorism unit...and you are saying I am a fraud because I am not ashamed to list my credentials...? Says alot about you blackascoal!
 
Battleborne said:
one of your comments are true...however...current pilot,retired LE officer, Vietnam era vet...LtandSgt,never a Cia Agent and never claimed to be...however I was a Intelligence Officer for the Department of Treasury,USCS...worked anti-terrorism unit...and you are saying I am a fraud because I am not ashamed to list my credentials...? Says alot about you blackascoal!
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I agree, it does say a lot about me.

I says that if you start your post to me with " I deleted most of your diatribe as it was pure nonsense", then don't expect that what you're going to get back will be friendly, or perhaps even civil.

If you wish to debate civily, I welcome you to do so.

But I also understand those times when someone says something that so infuriates you that you just have to respond with an insult. That's ok too. Just understand that I know how to play that as well.
 
Oh, BTW. I don't think people are "crazy" for distrusting government. I just wish they'd transfer it to all things. I don't want these people running my health care. I don't want them to collect one dime more than is necessary, regardless if it is from "rich" or "poor" people. I don't want them attempting to get into a bedroom and tell people how to act.

The list of what I don't want government to do is so long it would just be a wall of text....
 
Damocles said:
Oh, BTW. I don't think people are "crazy" for distrusting government. I just wish they'd transfer it to all things. I don't want these people running my health care. I don't want them to collect one dime more than is necessary, regardless if it is from "rich" or "poor" people. I don't want them attempting to get into a bedroom and tell people how to act.

The list of what I don't want government to do is so long it would just be a wall of text....
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Then you and I need to switch sides because I believe in government.

Bad government is bad government, but not all government is bad.

I understand the neccesity for taxes and understand the neccesity for nationalized healthcare.
 
Wrong again...........

blackascoal said:
The training they got in Florida was on a flight simulator and eveyone of them failed to have the capacity to even fly a small trainer Cessna.

How much intelligence is required to know that you can't play video games then go drive a tank or fly sophistcated large aircraft without specific training?

Even experienced pilots who have flown 737's need additional training to be able to fly a 757, or 767.

get real.
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Commercial pilots get most of their training on simulators...also the military use simulators for aircraft as well as the Abrams tank...it is effective as well as cheaper...also you fail to mention that the leaders also completed flight training in actual single engine ac for their Pvt Pilots license! Any pilot who has a license to fly could get behind the controls of a 757,767,737 or any other ac and fly it once it is airborne...landing and takeoff would be difficult without experience/training but straight and level flight would be no problem!
 
blackascoal said:
Then you and I need to switch sides because I believe in government.

Bad government is bad government, but not all government is bad.

I understand the neccesity for taxes and understand the neccesity for nationalized healthcare.
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I understand the necessity of taxes. I clearly stated that they should collect the smallest amount possible not that it should be removed from existence.

I believe that government is a necessary evil, not a solution.

I do not see any "need" for a government so inept they cannot balance a checkbook with 3 Trillion dollars collected to ever make any medical choices for me. The same government so "corrupt" that people do not trust it, regardless of who is in office (usually on a partisan basis, but it really is no different).
 
Damocles said:
I understand the necessity of taxes. I clearly stated that they should collect the smallest amount possible not that it should be removed from existence.

I believe that government is a necessary evil, not a solution.

I do not see any "need" for a government so inept they cannot balance a checkbook with 3 Trillion dollars collected to ever make any medical choices for me. The same government so "corrupt" that people do not trust it, regardless of who is in office (usually on a partisan basis, but it really is no different).
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Yes. The same government that invades and overthrows foreign soverign governments, the same government that jails millions for victimless crimes, the same government that can simply "misplace" trillions of dollars, the same governmet that spies on its own citizens, the same government that will not directly abide by the Geneva convention, the same government that practices rendition, this government is one I simply do not trust. And I sure as shit don't trust them to do any better with healthcare.
 
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