Is it crazy to distrust the official 911 story?

[Litmus]

BAC, governments tend to become tools of the elite, therefore, you should have government do as little as possible. And when you say "government should be powerful, but it should only be run by people who agree with me", then you become a totalitarian. Whatever people can do for themselves, they should. I really wish you would understand this. It's a necessary evil. Like damo said. Not some bright star of human salvation. And since you believe in racial discrimination as a tool of justice, you should be allowed nowhere near government. I believe there are many good specks in your heart, however.

 

[Beefy]

BAC, governments tend to become tools of the elite, therefore, you should have government do as little as possible. And when you say "government should be powerful, but it should only be run by people who agree with me", then you become a totalitarian. Whatever people can do for themselves, they should. I really wish you would understand this. It's a necessary evil. Like damo said. Not some bright star of human salvation. And since you believe in racial discrimination as a tool of justice, you should be allowed nowhere near government. I believe there are many good specks in your heart, however.

You forgot to put in some creative insults. Asslick, dickstench, you know.

 

[Litmus]

You forgot to put in some creative insults. Asslick, dickstench, you know.

Where ARE my manners.

NutBUtt!

 

[blackascoal]

BAC, governments tend to become tools of the elite, therefore, you should have government do as little as possible. And when you say "government should be powerful, but it should only be run by people who agree with me", then you become a totalitarian. Whatever people can do for themselves, they should. I really wish you would understand this. It's a necessary evil. Like damo said. Not some bright star of human salvation. And since you believe in racial discrimination as a tool of justice, you should be allowed nowhere near government. I believe there are many good specks in your heart, however.

I appreciate your faith my brother, however, government was not the tool of the elite when it acted to correct 364 years of demonic racial oppression. Individuals awash in "liberty" and "freedom" did nothing to arrest the evil stain on this country.

Government was not the tool of the elite when it acted to protect children with child labor laws, Headstart, and health protection. It was not the tool of the elite when it created safety nets for seniors and veterans through Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, veterans health, housing, and educational benefits. I could go on with this, but the point is that government, good government, is there to do what individuals focused on their own narrow view of the world, will not do for the benefit of the nation.

Government should be powerful, and I don't expect it to always agree with me, but it should always agree with the best interests of the whole.

I'm sorry, but I don't get this "me first" thinking that says individuals are more important than the best interests of the country. In my opinion, that's sick, and those are the very people who want to stand on a soap box shouting about "patriotism." In my opinion, it's about self-serving interests and incredible greed. Patriotism is about self sacrifice, not self interests.

There is no socio-ethical responsibility in the ideology of the Me, there is only me. Take the issue of healthcare as example. More than 40 million Americans don't have it, including millions and millions of children. The ideology of the Me says "fuck 'em" to those that don't have it. Such narrow self-serving thought is decidely unintelligent in my opinion because a healthy nation is a better nation, a better America .. but a better America is not the aim, goal, or agenda of the Me, only a better me.

America's infrastructure is collapsing all around us, but the philosophy of the Me, say's "fuck it" if it means that I'd have to pay one nickel more in taxes .. yet we throw away trillions of dollars on foreign misadventures and the proponents of the Me rarely have a word to say about that .. why? .. because they've been conditioned. FEAR is the greatest motivator of the Me. They FEAR every fucking thing. Anything that does not walk, act, and smell like them is to be feared. Republicans are masters of FEAR and self-interest.

The entire recent republican debate was a testament to the power of FEAR and self-interest. No discussion about the crisis of healthcare. No discussion about the zillions of dollars wasted in Iraq. Let's talk about the FEAR of immigration, the FEAR of gay people, and the FEAR of arabs .. then to top it off .. let's talk about "God"

WTF !!!

Even when they were forced into talking about our collapsing infrastructure, none of them knew what to say .. because properly addressing it means sacrifice, less pork, and possibly more taxes if they can't get rid of the pork.

The invasion of Iraq is pork

Continuing to build massive arsenals of the most horrific weapons known to Man, that only a demon would build or even possess, is pork.

Stationing our troops all over the world in countries that don't want them there is pork

But the ideology of the Me will never address that but rather focus on classifying ketchup as a vegetable in school lunch programs, focus on there are too many children being covered by a health program, focus on "welfare" while corporate welfare dwarfs and assistance to families, and decry any assistance to Americans who've been victims of tragic disasters.

I don't agree with you my brother and I wish you could understand that what you suggest is why this nation is in decline, it's why Americans are an invented, controlled, and scared as shit people.

 

[blackascoal]

You forgot to put in some creative insults. Asslick, dickstench, you know.

AHZ and I have come to an accord brother.

Ebony and Ivory forveva'

 

[Litmus]

I appreciate your faith my brother, however, government was not the tool of the elite when it acted to correct 364 years of demonic racial oppression. Individuals awash in "liberty" and "freedom" did nothing to arrest the evil stain on this country.

Government was not the tool of the elite when it acted to protect children with child labor laws, Headstart, and health protection. It was not the tool of the elite when it created safety nets for seniors and veterans through Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, veterans health, housing, and educational benefits. I could go on with this, but the point is that government, good government, is there to do what individuals focused on their own narrow view of the world, will not do for the benefit of the nation.

Government should be powerful, and I don't expect it to always agree with me, but it should always agree with the best interests of the whole.

I'm sorry, but I don't get this "me first" thinking that says individuals are more important than the best interests of the country. In my opinion, that's sick, and those are the very people who want to stand on a soap box shouting about "patriotism." In my opinion, it's about self-serving interests and incredible greed. Patriotism is about self sacrifice, not self interests.

There is no socio-ethical responsibility in the ideology of the Me, there is only me. Take the issue of healthcare as example. More than 40 million Americans don't have it, including millions and millions of children. The ideology of the Me says "fuck 'em" to those that don't have it. Such narrow self-serving thought is decidely unintelligent in my opinion because a healthy nation is a better nation, a better America .. but a better America is not the aim, goal, or agenda of the Me, only a better me.

America's infrastructure is collapsing all around us, but the philosophy of the Me, say's "fuck it" if it means that I'd have to pay one nickel more in taxes .. yet we throw away trillions of dollars on foreign misadventures and the proponents of the Me rarely have a word to say about that .. why? .. because they've been conditioned. FEAR is the greatest motivator of the Me. They FEAR every fucking thing. Anything that does not walk, act, and smell like them is to be feared. Republicans are masters of FEAR and self-interest.

The entire recent republican debate was a testament to the power of FEAR and self-interest. No discussion about the crisis of healthcare. No discussion about the zillions of dollars wasted in Iraq. Let's talk about the FEAR of immigration, the FEAR of gay people, and the FEAR of arabs .. then to top it off .. let's talk about "God"

WTF !!!

Even when they were forced into talking about our collapsing infrastructure, none of them knew what to say .. because properly addressing it means sacrifice, less pork, and possibly more taxes if they can't get rid of the pork.

The invasion of Iraq is pork

Continuing to build massive arsenals of the most horrific weapons known to Man, that only a demon would build or even possess, is pork.

Stationing our troops all over the world in countries that don't want them there is pork

But the ideology of the Me will never address that but rather focus on classifying ketchup as a vegetable in school lunch programs, focus on there are too many children being covered by a health program, focus on "welfare" while corporate welfare dwarfs and assistance to families, and decry any assistance to Americans who've been victims of tragic disasters.

I don't agree with you my brother and I wish you could understand that what you suggest is why this nation is in decline, it's why Americans are an invented, controlled, and scared as shit people.

It has functioned for the people in the past. Lately it's just become a tool of oppression. And I Fear giving it too much power. It is a pickle. But we have come to an accord, my chocolate man lover.

 

[evince]

BAC, governments tend to become tools of the elite, therefore, you should have government do as little as possible. And when you say "government should be powerful, but it should only be run by people who agree with me", then you become a totalitarian. Whatever people can do for themselves, they should. I really wish you would understand this. It's a necessary evil. Like damo said. Not some bright star of human salvation. And since you believe in racial discrimination as a tool of justice, you should be allowed nowhere near government. I believe there are many good specks in your heart, however.

Heres the problem. When government is weak the elite can bash it arround and still have control. We need a government which is strong but uncorrupted to keep the elite policed and their hands out of the little guys pocket. This is why the line was " a republic if you can keep it" was said.
Democracy needs the peoples hands on to stay clean. We need more people to vote and be involved. When you constantly tell people government is evil you chase people out of involvement with it. We need all our people to start telling everyone they know to registar and vote. The power of the people will stop this mess.

 

[evince]

Now take a look at what the Republican party has done in the last thirty years to thwart voter registration in this country. The sad fact is the R party does better when fewer Americans vote.

 

[blackascoal]

Commercial pilots get most of their training on simulators...also the military use simulators for aircraft as well as the Abrams tank...it is effective as well as cheaper...also you fail to mention that the leaders also completed flight training in actual single engine ac for their Pvt Pilots license! Any pilot who has a license to fly could get behind the controls of a 757,767,737 or any other ac and fly it once it is airborne...landing and takeoff would be difficult without experience/training but straight and level flight would be no problem!

Some of what you've said is true .. but you're missing the most telling part. Could those simulator pilots execute the kind of manuevers that happened on 9/11? Could simulator pilots who've never been trained on the kind of sophisticated instrumentation in a 767 fly flawlessly all over the country then turn around and find their targets? We're not talking about one or even two Mensa simulator pilots, we're talking about four of them .. flawlessly .. all over the country .. flying precision manuevers that combat pilots couldn't do.

Why would experienced combat and commercial pilots doubt that any of this is possible? They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by their courage to take a stand.

Additionally, let's not pretend that simulator pilots flying like Errol Flynn in a movie is the only problem with the 9/11 fairy-tale. It would still be hard to believe if this was the only problem, but there are thousands of things wrong with the fairy-tale and most of them are equally incredible, equally unbelievable.

If a terrorist wants to attack the Pentagon with an airplane, he would fly it right into the center, not take a much more difficult and unbelievable plight path into the sidfe of the building .. that coincidentally just happened to be under construction and sparesly occupied. Then he flys this plane no more than 20 feet off the ground and slams into the Pentagon without leaving a trail of skid marks and burns in the manicured lawn, that was still manicured after the 'attack." You could have went out and played a round of golf on that lawn.

Then incredibly, the same type of plane that melted giant buildings caryying virtually the same amount of fuel, slams into the Pentagon and does relatively minor damage. The roof didn't even collapse until a half hour AFTER the impact. The rooms right next to the impact don't even have burns, soot, and smoke damage to them. An open book lies on a wooden stool without the pages even being singed. A plastic computer monitor sitting on a cabinet is not burned .. RIGHT NEXT TO THE IMPACT SITE .. and the plane flying at 500 mph makes a 16 by 14 ft hole .. the same type plane that melted giant buildings.

And to top this all off, the Pentagon has cameras all over the building and in every room, yet the only photo available is a scuzzy grainy one without detail. What happened to the videos shot by the gas station across hte street from the Pentagon .. which, by the way, should have had every window in the station blown out by a giant plane flying only a few fett above it. The vibrations and noise should have been deafening and the exhuast over-powering. Not only was the video IMMEDIATELY confiscated, everyone in the station was placed on a gag order .. in fact, hunderds of people have been placed under gag orders and told not to speak.

Surely you're not suggesting that there is not enough evidence to raise serious suspicions and call for an independent investigation, not the whitewashed Bush controlled 9/11 Commission variety.

 

[evince]

http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm


This is the link you gave for the squib evidence. I have noticed the damage is on differing floors from the video I gave adn appears to be the wrong corner of the building too. I think maybe they are streching their "evidence" .Why would they do that?

 

[blackascoal]

It has functioned for the people in the past. Lately it's just become a tool of oppression. And I Fear giving it too much power. It is a pickle. But we have come to an accord, my chocolate man lover.

Make that dark chocolate sweetie.

But your enemy is not government, it's the people who now control it.

Your enemy is something most Americans do not want to deal with or face, and infact would consider blasphamous, because that enemy is MONEY and uncontrolled capitalism. MONEY is GOD to Americans and above all else.

You exist in a plutocracy, my brother. That is a fact.

Americans have no way to control their own government because we've morphed into a plutocracy.

You don't even have a system to vote the plutocrats out of office, because that system has been bought .. and for the most part, only the plutocrats are running for office, especially on your side of the fence. Romney, Guiliani, McCain, Thompson, Hunter .. plutocrats every one of them, which is not to say that democrats are running their own supreme plutocrat in Hillary.

You're aiming at the wrong target my friend, and like most people, are unaware that America is a plutocracy where th corporate will has replaced the will of the people.

 

[Damocles]

http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm


This is the link you gave for the squib evidence. I have noticed the damage is on differing floors from the video I gave adn appears to be the wrong corner of the building too. I think maybe they are streching their "evidence" .Why would they do that?

Actually they give both shots on the page. Spend more than 10 seconds and click on more than one link. There is more there than you want to pretend exists.

The shot from one is from the Northwest, the other from the Southwest showing what was causing the effects that were listed as "squibs".

They don't have every video that was ever taken on that site, nor does yours. It does however give a more realistic answer than thousands of people worked with the Bush Admin to take down buildings in NYC with nobody giving up that smoking gun so we all have to figure it out from "squib" pictures that can be proven to be wrong.

I gave you another link for squib evidence as well. Spend more than 30 seconds trying to find some thing you think is wrong. Really read the site.

 

[Damocles]

Make that dark chocolate sweetie.

But your enemy is not government, it's the people who now control it.

Your enemy is something most Americans do not want to deal with or face, and infact would consider blasphamous, because that enemy is MONEY and uncontrolled capitalism. MONEY is GOD to Americans and above all else.

You exist in a plutocracy, my brother. That is a fact.

Americans have no way to control their own government because we've morphed into a plutocracy.

You don't even have a system to vote the plutocrats out of office, because that system has been bought .. and for the most part, only the plutocrats are running for office, especially on your side of the fence. Romney, Guiliani, McCain, Thompson, Hunter .. plutocrats every one of them, which is not to say that democrats are running their own supreme plutocrat in Hillary.

You're aiming at the wrong target my friend, and like most people, are unaware that America is a plutocracy where th corporate will has replaced the will of the people.

My "enemy" is those who would trust the government. Power corrupts, and it corrupts those you believe you trust.

The government is a tool, not a solution. And it is a tool that should be used the least possible, the one pulled from the toolbox only at last resort. We the People should hold every last shred of personal power we can jealously against any action the government might use to take it from us. Stingily giving any power of individual freedoms to those who may use it unwisely, as a faceless "government" more often than not will.

 

[uscitizen]

Ahh time for a one liner

I don't think I have posted on this thread :O

Anyway here goes.
Why should we not believe our govts explanation of 911? It is not like they have lied to us before

 

[evince]

Damo every thime I do I see flaws in what they say. They dont even have the guts to tell us who they are and who paid for the sight. All of the sights questioning the evidence of the official story give their names proudly. Why do these people hide who they are?

 

[Litmus]

Make that dark chocolate sweetie.

But your enemy is not government, it's the people who now control it.

Your enemy is something most Americans do not want to deal with or face, and infact would consider blasphamous, because that enemy is MONEY and uncontrolled capitalism. MONEY is GOD to Americans and above all else.

You exist in a plutocracy, my brother. That is a fact.

Americans have no way to control their own government because we've morphed into a plutocracy.

You don't even have a system to vote the plutocrats out of office, because that system has been bought .. and for the most part, only the plutocrats are running for office, especially on your side of the fence. Romney, Guiliani, McCain, Thompson, Hunter .. plutocrats every one of them, which is not to say that democrats are running their own supreme plutocrat in Hillary.

You're aiming at the wrong target my friend, and like most people, are unaware that America is a plutocracy where th corporate will has replaced the will of the people.

But the government is wholly subjugated to corporate interests, so why trust it? And why give it more scope to fuck up our lives. It seems like we agree, honestly.

 

[blackascoal]

Sure !!!

 

[Damocles]

Damo every thime I do I see flaws in what they say. They dont even have the guts to tell us who they are and who paid for the sight. All of the sights questioning the evidence of the official story give their names proudly. Why do these people hide who they are?

You'll have to ask them. As I said, I do not know.

They do list the people who wrote the articles they link to, and their sources, including peer reviewed publications that many of them come from. Your sites list none of those because there isn't any.

It is, again, ironic to me that those who insist that people follow peer reviewed science for global warming claims deny it when it is inconvenient for them.

While he does write some of the pages, he links to information from other sources. Regardless of whether he tells me his name, I can read information and check it to find out.

This is also not the only site I have linked to. Just one of the ones that are easy to use.

Each time you "find something wrong" I read further and find the article actually speaks to what you "found wrong" even on the same page, or on a different page you can find more information. The only thing you have proved to me so far is that you did not read most of the page.

 

[blackascoal]

My "enemy" is those who would trust the government. Power corrupts, and it corrupts those you believe you trust.

The government is a tool, not a solution. And it is a tool that should be used the least possible, the one pulled from the toolbox only at last resort. We the People should hold every last shred of personal power we can jealously against any action the government might use to take it from us. Stingily giving any power of individual freedoms to those who may use it unwisely, as a faceless "government" more often than not will.

Conditioned thought, in my opinion.

While you're talking about individuals, corporations control your nation.

And it is not without amazing irony, that they've done this through the very people and the very party that always talks about "individual freedom."

It is WE the people, not Me the people.

 

[blackascoal]

But the government is wholly subjugated to corporate interests, so why trust it? And why give it more scope to fuck up our lives. It seems like we agree, honestly.

I agree that we should get corporations and lobbyists out of our government so it can continue its role in the interests of WE the people.

What is patriotism to you?