Islamic Caliphate

I would venture to say, the vast majority of average Americans, had never heard the term "caliphate" before 9/11. To many, it's simply a word with vague meaning, and often overlooked or overused in the debate over what to do in the middle east. Those who seek isolationism, will pretend there is no such thing as a "caliphate" and those who promote American intervention, speak of the "caliphate" as this entity we have to prevent or stop, because it spells the end of civilization if we fail.

The truth is, there was a strong and vibrant Islamic caliphate until 1924, when Turkey disbanded it. (Although unlikely, Turkey still retains the rights to reinstate the Caliphate). Prior to 1924, the Caliphate endured for many years, in various forms, dating back to the 7th century. Much of the conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims, is the direct result of a dispute within the Caliphate, during the 13th century.

You can go check Wikipedia, or any other source of reference, and study the history of the Caliphate, and you will find, centuries and centuries of turmoil, war, infighting, greed and conquest, lust for more power, jealousy, bitterness, expansionism, fanaticism, and all the rest. This is why the Caliphate was ultimately dis-banned by the Turks in 1924, because after centuries of this shit, it was time to stop it for good.

Following the invasion of Afghanistan, the radical Islamofascists revived their calls for a new Caliphate, and have fostered great support among fellow Muslims, who would benefit from a powerful governmental entity, such as the Caliphate. Now, pinheads will say... what's the big deal? Let them have their Caliphate! The problem is, that has already been tried, and it failed. The Russians, after years of fighting the Ottoman's, agreed to allow the Caliphate to exist, they even bartered a deal with the Caliphate to protect the Russian Muslims. Of course, this lasted until one faction became jealous of another, and the fighting starts all over again. This scenario is repeated all through history, from the 7th Century until 1924, when the Turks disbanded the Caliphate.

The new initiative to reform the Caliphate, is not the real danger, it's the reason and motive for re-establishing the Caliphate, which should alarm everyone. The realization of a powerful controlling Islamic entity across the middle east is one thing, it would essentially control the world's oil supply, and for that reason alone, would command respect. But on a different level, the implications would be much worse than mere economic leverage.

With the introduction of radical Islam, and the message brought forth by the current mullah's and clerics, the Caliphate becomes a vehicle to the end time, or Apocalypse. The Quran has been interpreted to convey a plan, a strategy to bring about the return of Mohammed. It speaks of a great war of civilization, between the Caliphate and the Infidels of the World, at which time, the conditions will be met to enable the return of their deity. Certainly some of these same motives were present in the days of the Ottoman's and before, but they viewed this great conflict as an event that would take place far in the future, unbeknownst to anyone. They conquered lands and grew in power, for the coming great war, but they didn't know when it would come, and it, in fact, never did. The current radical view, is this idea of creating the conditions for the great war themselves, through the Caliphate.

Now, when you talk to a typical liberal pinhead on a message board, they will say... "Caliphate, Shmalifate! ...who cares?" As if, there is not a big deal about allowing the re-establishment of an Islamic Caliphate, in fact, they ought to have that right! Oh yeah, liberals just need "a cause" to rally behind, and they can so relate to these poor people who are just fighting for justice, wanting their meager little Caliphate! Who are we to deny them? Who are we to say they can't do this, if this is what they want? It's typical liberalism to fully support this minority in re-establishing their Caliphate!

Heaven forbid, we should try to force them into another form of government, like Democracy! How dare we?! They are perfectly content and happy with their plans to re-establish the Caliphate and bring about Apocalypse, why should we be forcing Democracy down their throats at the point of a gun? And who's to say this time, the Caliphate will be the same as Otto? Maybe, for the first time since the 7th Century, the Caliphate will be content to just have its place of recognition on the world stage, and be happy living in co-existence with the rest of us? (This is some of that new "Hope" the pinheads are always talking about having.)

Peace in the middle east, and indeed the world, will not come through re-establishment of the Caliphate. This is a foolish thing to even dream. Equally ridiculous, is any notion that, IF they manage to re-establish a Caliphate, everything will be fine, and they will be content and happy, satisfied with that alone. It's never happened that way before in history, and it certainly won't happen that way now. The motive and purpose of reforming the Caliphate, is not merely to have control of their own lands, it is to bring about the great war, Apocalypse, the End Time! This is why we call their views "radical", because they ARE! Extremely radical! We can choose to live in a bubble of ignorance, and just not accept reality, or we can objectively look at the situation, and make a decision to do something about it.
 
You thought persians and arabs were the same ethnic group, so get off your pedestal pretending like you know what your talking about.

Persians, Arabs, Turks, Kurds, sunnis and shia are all blood enemies of each other. they've been trying to kill each other for a thousand years - and continue to do so to this day. No way there ever going to unite in a calipahte.
 
Persians, Arabs, Turks, Kurds, sunnis and shia are all blood enemies of each other. they've been trying to kill each other for a thousand years - and continue to do so to this day.

Yes! They HAVE killed each other for centuries! Mostly because of disputes in who is controlling the Caliphate! That is why it's fundamentally important to understand the implications of allowing them to re-establish the Caliphate!

We see the results of Democracy everyday, you and I are as much "blood enemies" as the Sunni and Shia, but we aren't killing each other in the streets of America... why? Democracy. We have a system in place, which allows the prevailing party to govern, and the minority to have a political voice. You don't have to come kill me, you simply have to defeat me at the ballot box.

This all boils down to two fundamental ideas for how to govern, through Democracy, or through Islamic Caliphate. I think a valid case is made for peace, prosperity, and strength, with Democracy, while a case for war, oppression, aggression, and death, is historically the result of Caliph rule.

I just can't grasp the mindset of liberals here... What do you think will happen, if we abandon the middle east and let the chips fall where they may? You don't think they can establish this Caliphate? You don't believe, with nothing standing in their way, they wouldn't do it? They preach and teach it everyday in the madrases and mosques across the middle east. To put it in pinhead context, the movement is far stronger than Gay Marriage, and you fully believe that is going to be a reality one day, don't you?

Muslims are easily convinced to support a Caliphate, it's the system they knew until 1924, and it's what most of them believe is the way to go. Even if they don't share the radical views of bringing about the Apocalypse, they still think it is inherent of them to be ruled by a Caliph. Once a Caliphate is in place, this will not mark the end of the "struggle" or Jihad. In fact, it only signals the beginning, according to their interpretations of the Quran, it enables the conditions for Apocalypse, and the return of Mohamed.

We should be deciding NOW, if we want to sit on our hands and watch this radical religious nightmare unfold, or if we can possibly change some dynamic to avert this inevitability. This is where the concept of "planting democracy" comes from, it is an alternative to this vision they have, of re-establishing a theocratic caliphate, which has historically been the cause of ALL the bloodshed in that region. Democracy doesn't result in bloodshed... see? I haven't had to saw off your head, I just call you a pinhead and move on!
 
when you referred to the president of Iran as an arab nationalist.

Brace yourself for the spin machine on this one. He'll deny it, call you a pinhead, say you twisted his words and that you're stupid for not understanding what he meant. Its so boringly predictable.
 
Brace yourself for the spin machine on this one. He'll deny it, call you a pinhead, say you twisted his words and that you're stupid for not understanding what he meant. Its so boringly predictable.

You sure have the formula down!
 
This is all a nice diversion. But what about the caliphate? Can you address the reality of what dixie is discussing or is petty sniping all you have?

asshat... all dixie ever has is half baked warmed over bullshit. Like was previously said, after a while, you can judge the content of the post by knowing the content of the "character".

If you had been here long enough, you would know that Dixie has been woefully ignorant about the caliphate and the true aims of wahabbism vis a vis the establishment thereof for several years now... so when he comes up with yet another of his flatulent. self congratulatory gadfly rants and it's actually about something he previously has shown zero knowledge of, it makes one remember that he doesn't even know the difference between an arab and a persian... so it goes without saying that his pontifications about the more esoteric aspects of Islam are not worth the time it takes to read them. Now, if you want to call that "petty sniping", have at it...this is the asshole who called me a pedophile on numerous occasions, so you'll forgive me if I don't JUMP to give his latest piece of "scholarly analysis" the benefit of the doubt.
 
you must be new here.


Yeah AssHat, you must be new here... you don't realize that Maine always has nothing but petty snipes and personal insults... oh yeah, and his profound opinion based on his illustrious experiences. He never contributes to the actual DEBATE, it's always about diversion with him.
 
Dixie...if a guy who didn't know the difference between a atria and a ventricle wanted to operate on my heart, I wouldn't let him.... your own "on the record" examples of profound ignorance rightfully cause any thinking person to doubt the wisdom of your "scholarly writing". That is not diversion...it is putting your fluff into realistic context.
 
I would venture to say, the vast majority of average Americans, had never heard the term "caliphate" before 9/11. To many, it's simply a word with vague meaning, and often overlooked or overused in the debate over what to do in the middle east. Those who seek isolationism, will pretend there is no such thing as a "caliphate" and those who promote American intervention, speak of the "caliphate" as this entity we have to prevent or stop, because it spells the end of civilization if we fail.

The truth is, there was a strong and vibrant Islamic caliphate until 1924, when Turkey disbanded it. (Although unlikely, Turkey still retains the rights to reinstate the Caliphate). Prior to 1924, the Caliphate endured for many years, in various forms, dating back to the 7th century. Much of the conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims, is the direct result of a dispute within the Caliphate, during the 13th century.

You can go check Wikipedia, or any other source of reference, and study the history of the Caliphate, and you will find, centuries and centuries of turmoil, war, infighting, greed and conquest, lust for more power, jealousy, bitterness, expansionism, fanaticism, and all the rest. This is why the Caliphate was ultimately dis-banned by the Turks in 1924, because after centuries of this shit, it was time to stop it for good.

Following the invasion of Afghanistan, the radical Islamofascists revived their calls for a new Caliphate, and have fostered great support among fellow Muslims, who would benefit from a powerful governmental entity, such as the Caliphate. Now, pinheads will say... what's the big deal? Let them have their Caliphate! The problem is, that has already been tried, and it failed. The Russians, after years of fighting the Ottoman's, agreed to allow the Caliphate to exist, they even bartered a deal with the Caliphate to protect the Russian Muslims. Of course, this lasted until one faction became jealous of another, and the fighting starts all over again. This scenario is repeated all through history, from the 7th Century until 1924, when the Turks disbanded the Caliphate.

The new initiative to reform the Caliphate, is not the real danger, it's the reason and motive for re-establishing the Caliphate, which should alarm everyone. The realization of a powerful controlling Islamic entity across the middle east is one thing, it would essentially control the world's oil supply, and for that reason alone, would command respect. But on a different level, the implications would be much worse than mere economic leverage.

With the introduction of radical Islam, and the message brought forth by the current mullah's and clerics, the Caliphate becomes a vehicle to the end time, or Apocalypse. The Quran has been interpreted to convey a plan, a strategy to bring about the return of Mohammed. It speaks of a great war of civilization, between the Caliphate and the Infidels of the World, at which time, the conditions will be met to enable the return of their deity. Certainly some of these same motives were present in the days of the Ottoman's and before, but they viewed this great conflict as an event that would take place far in the future, unbeknownst to anyone. They conquered lands and grew in power, for the coming great war, but they didn't know when it would come, and it, in fact, never did. The current radical view, is this idea of creating the conditions for the great war themselves, through the Caliphate.

Now, when you talk to a typical liberal pinhead on a message board, they will say... "Caliphate, Shmalifate! ...who cares?" As if, there is not a big deal about allowing the re-establishment of an Islamic Caliphate, in fact, they ought to have that right! Oh yeah, liberals just need "a cause" to rally behind, and they can so relate to these poor people who are just fighting for justice, wanting their meager little Caliphate! Who are we to deny them? Who are we to say they can't do this, if this is what they want? It's typical liberalism to fully support this minority in re-establishing their Caliphate!

Heaven forbid, we should try to force them into another form of government, like Democracy! How dare we?! They are perfectly content and happy with their plans to re-establish the Caliphate and bring about Apocalypse, why should we be forcing Democracy down their throats at the point of a gun? And who's to say this time, the Caliphate will be the same as Otto? Maybe, for the first time since the 7th Century, the Caliphate will be content to just have its place of recognition on the world stage, and be happy living in co-existence with the rest of us? (This is some of that new "Hope" the pinheads are always talking about having.)

Peace in the middle east, and indeed the world, will not come through re-establishment of the Caliphate. This is a foolish thing to even dream. Equally ridiculous, is any notion that, IF they manage to re-establish a Caliphate, everything will be fine, and they will be content and happy, satisfied with that alone. It's never happened that way before in history, and it certainly won't happen that way now. The motive and purpose of reforming the Caliphate, is not merely to have control of their own lands, it is to bring about the great war, Apocalypse, the End Time! This is why we call their views "radical", because they ARE! Extremely radical! We can choose to live in a bubble of ignorance, and just not accept reality, or we can objectively look at the situation, and make a decision to do something about it.

I lost interest when I saw islamofacist, what the hell is an islamofacist?
Must be listed in the NEW NEOCON DICTIONARY, or Bushspeak.

The Christians advertise the End of Times in a slick new package, "The Left Behind Series"

Pat Roberston is saying God gave him a message of another attack in 2007 where many American lives will be lost...yep, there probably will be one more year in Iraq.

The Caliphate some of Islam love em, some don't. It was a schism, just like Christianity had a schism.

Islam in some areas is indeed behind the times and radical. Education and not bombs will change this.
 
...And Maine, I really wish you'd stop mentioning your past as a pedophile, you are going to get a reputation. It's best to just let it rest, and hope people forget... you see, they can't forget if you keep bringing it all back up. I mean, every time I have just about gotten it out of mind, how you wanted to rape my daughter at gunpoint, you go and bring it all back up again, and I get all upset all over again, thinking about your creepy rant about forcing her to read you poetry as the diseased biker dudes.... well, we all know the sick twisted fantasy you shared when you were drunk. I would suggest you drop it, and stop bringing the past up, you aren't helping yourself here.
 
...And Maine, I really wish you'd stop mentioning your past as a pedophile, you are going to get a reputation. It's best to just let it rest, and hope people forget... you see, they can't forget if you keep bringing it all back up. I mean, every time I have just about gotten it out of mind, how you wanted to rape my daughter at gunpoint, you go and bring it all back up again, and I get all upset all over again, thinking about your creepy rant about forcing her to read you poetry as the diseased biker dudes.... well, we all know the sick twisted fantasy you shared when you were drunk. I would suggest you drop it, and stop bringing the past up, you aren't helping yourself here.

Dixie...if you'll recall...it was YOU who claimed to get a hardon thinking about MY young hockey playing son.....

you're not only a pedophile, but a homo pedophile.....

thankfully for you, SR deleted all those perverted posts.

sick sick man.....
 
I lost interest when I saw islamofacist, what the hell is an islamofacist?
Must be listed in the NEW NEOCON DICTIONARY, or Bushspeak.

The Christians advertise the End of Times in a slick new package, "The Left Behind Series"

Pat Roberston is saying God gave him a message of another attack in 2007 where many American lives will be lost...yep, there probably will be one more year in Iraq.

The Caliphate some of Islam love em, some don't. It was a schism, just like Christianity had a schism.

Islam in some areas is indeed behind the times and radical. Education and not bombs will change this.

Quoted for truth.
 
...And Maine, I really wish you'd stop mentioning your past as a pedophile, you are going to get a reputation. It's best to just let it rest, and hope people forget... you see, they can't forget if you keep bringing it all back up. I mean, every time I have just about gotten it out of mind, how you wanted to rape my daughter at gunpoint, you go and bring it all back up again, and I get all upset all over again, thinking about your creepy rant about forcing her to read you poetry as the diseased biker dudes.... well, we all know the sick twisted fantasy you shared when you were drunk. I would suggest you drop it, and stop bringing the past up, you aren't helping yourself here.

Dixie...if you'll recall...it was YOU who claimed to get a hardon thinking about MY young hockey playing son.....

you're not only a pedophile, but a homo pedophile.....

thankfully for you, SR deleted all those perverted posts.

sick sick man.....

asshat... all dixie ever has is half baked warmed over bullshit. Like was previously said, after a while, you can judge the content of the post by knowing the content of the "character".

If you had been here long enough, you would know that Dixie has been woefully ignorant about the caliphate and the true aims of wahabbism vis a vis the establishment thereof for several years now... so when he comes up with yet another of his flatulent. self congratulatory gadfly rants and it's actually about something he previously has shown zero knowledge of, it makes one remember that he doesn't even know the difference between an arab and a persian... so it goes without saying that his pontifications about the more esoteric aspects of Islam are not worth the time it takes to read them. Now, if you want to call that "petty sniping", have at it...this is the asshole who called me a pedophile on numerous occasions, so you'll forgive me if I don't JUMP to give his latest piece of "scholarly analysis" the benefit of the doubt.

You two are idiots. Really.

Grown men running around crying that the other called them a name....

Grow the fuck up. You really think the rest of this forum wants to see your crying contests all the time? You think that rehashing this shit in every goddamned thread is doing anything for either of you?


Carry on I guess....
 
I lost interest when I saw islamofacist, what the hell is an islamofacist?

Aww.. I'm sorry there weren't any bright shiny objects to keep your attention, Frog. An "Islamofascist" is a person who has perverted the Islamic faith, and is using the tactic of fascism to implement their twisted perversion. It is used to denote a distinct difference between who we are fighting, and legitimate Muslim people, who don't subscribe to this warped ideology of hate.
 
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