Islamic Caliphate

Dixie said:
Can we move there and live? No.

What gets me is, everyone I have listened to so far, who is opposed to this war, exhibits this same sort of spoiled selfish arrogance and unwillingness to do a damn thing for anyone else. 'What's in it for ME?' You have no concept of doing something for someone other than yourself, and you can't understand why any one would ever expect you to even lift a finger to help another.

Again, we have a moral and ethical obligation to fellow mankind, to promote and foster freedom and democracy... it's what we do! Why do WE have to be the ones? Because no one else can or will. Again... it's what we do!
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Yeah, suddenly you're a radical liberal who gives a fuck about other people.
:rolleyes:
 
Dixie said:
What will americans get out of a stable iraq?

You mean, besides a strong oil-rich ally in the heart of Islamoradicalville?

A democratic Iraq could be the catalyst for the change they have needed in that region. It's possible, a stable and prosperous Iraq, would promote the idea that democracy isn't such a bad western concept, and it might just have some legitimate monetary and socioeconomic advantages after all. It certainly can't be worse for Iraq than the tyrant dictator before, or the tyrant dictator who would follow, if we bailed. Since we already know where the tyrant dictator road leads, it stands to reason democracy might be something to try, at least. You'd figure anything that keeps neocons from killing pinheads would be worth a shot here... huh?
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the point, of course, is that a multicultural Jeffersonian democracy on the banks of the Euphrates is not going to happen regardless of how much american blood, treasure and goodwill is dumped on the problem.


Sure, a democratic Iraq would be fabulous. An Israeli-loving Palestine would be great too. And take that magic wand to Ireland and make centuries of enmity between protestants and catholics just instantaneously melt away. And cure cancer while you're at it!

There are real and achievable missions for our military... wet nursing Iraqi democracy is not one of them. There is a real and present danger from Islamic extremists... remaining in Iraq is causing us to be in more danger from them than before.
 
And from the news it would appear that we are now arresting members of the legit democratic government of Iraq.....So this is no longer just an Iraqi civil war.
 
the point, of course, is that a multicultural Jeffersonian democracy on the banks of the Euphrates is not going to happen regardless of how much american blood, treasure and goodwill is dumped on the problem.

And as I said... A 'multicultural Jeffersonian democracy' would be about my third or fourth choice, behind a Hamiltonian, Jacksonian, and Wilsonian democracy. I will agree, unless there is an Arab version of Thomas Jefferson, they will probably not end up with 'Jeffersonian democracy' in Iraq. This doesn't mean the democratic model can't be used by Arab-Muslims to form a cohesive functioning democratic government. And a cohesive functioning democratic government in Iraq, is substantially better than what they had.

I realize you are a naysayer, and it flies in the face of reason to believe you will ever be anything else, you are too invested in defeat to do that. Iraqi's could magically wake up this morning with red, white, and blue skin... singing Yankee Doodle, and shooting American flags out their ass, and you would still have the same wrongheaded views on Iraq. They simply never can do enough to satisfy you, because you are so invested in their failure.

Take off your tin foil hats and put down your koolaid for a moment, and THINK... Would Iraq eventually be better off under a democratically controlled governing body, or an evil tyrant dictator? Hmmmm... democracy---evil tyrant dictator--- it's such a damn hard choice! I wonder what 12 million Iraqi's with purple fingers think? I wonder what pinheads views would be, if we were talking about America being ruled by Bush or having presidential elections in 2008? Would you make the same idiotic argument that America is better off with a dictator, and we can't handle elections or democracy? I think not... so why make this argument for people you don't even know?
 
pick whatever democratic model you chose.... it ain't gonna happen. Sunnis and shiites in Iraq are not going to join hands and sing Kumbaya anytime in the near future, if ever. And certainly not until both sides have gotten a belly full of carnage and jointly agree that they cannot stomach any more. I realize that you think it would be such a wonderful thing to have happen...and I do not disagree... just like I think it would be a wonderful thing if Israelis and Palestinians had a similarly affectionate group hug and decided that they could all live in peace and harmony on the same land and mutually respect each other's religious, ethnic and cultural differences....just like I think that it would be simply DUCKY if world hunger were to magically disappear, or if the Boston Celtics could actually win a basketball game once in a while, but I am pretty sure that none of those - with the possible exception of the Celtics ending their losing streak sometime soon - are going to happen.... and they certainly will not happen any faster if we apply American military might to the problem.

Wetnursing belligerent arabs and their attempts at forming a democracy is NOT a military mission.
 
Yep it is nation building, which bush promised not to do with our troops lives....
I'll bet Bush welches on bets too ;)
 
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