Islamic Caliphate

Dixie said:
I don't know Maine, that never happened... I suppose, if they came with enough force and kicked our ass hard enough, we would have had no choice other than listen to them and do as they say. That's generally how that works! What IS your point?
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my point is...what sort of country would we have become if we had allowed foreigners from across the sea come in and tell us how and when and for how long to fight for what we thought was right?

Let Iraq become what it will become. It is boiling in sectarian conflict today - and I understand that we started that whole thing boiling in the first place, but - it needs to find its own equilibrium without our meddling hamfisted interference.
 
my point is...what sort of country would we have become if we had allowed foreigners from across the sea come in and tell us how and when and for how long to fight for what we thought was right?

LOL... Didn't "foreigners" convince Colonialists to fight a Revolution against the King of England?

Let Iraq become what it will become. It is boiling in sectarian conflict today - and I understand that we started that whole thing boiling in the first place, but - it needs to find its own equilibrium without our meddling hamfisted interference.

You have already admitted, Iraq is not going to become anything except failure. You know full well, if we abandon them now, they will collapse to the sectarian violence and radicals will take over. Our only "interference" is training legitimate Iraqi security forces, who are quelling the violence. I agree... let's Let Iraq Become Whatever... but let's give them a fair shot, huh? Let's get their security up to strength and help them establish some stability, before we cut, run, and surrender!

If you really honestly feel WE created this mess, you should at least have some moral and ethical conscience about just leaving it a fucked up mess! How is THAT supposed to foster good-will in that part of the world?
 
Dixie said:
my point is...what sort of country would we have become if we had allowed foreigners from across the sea come in and tell us how and when and for how long to fight for what we thought was right?

LOL... Didn't "foreigners" convince Colonialists to fight a Revolution against the King of England?

and foreign "terrorists" did not convince Iraqis to fight against the presence of American christian troops either
Let Iraq become what it will become. It is boiling in sectarian conflict today - and I understand that we started that whole thing boiling in the first place, but - it needs to find its own equilibrium without our meddling hamfisted interference.

You have already admitted, Iraq is not going to become anything except failure. You know full well, if we abandon them now, they will collapse to the sectarian violence and radicals will take over. Our only "interference" is training legitimate Iraqi security forces, who are quelling the violence. I agree... let's Let Iraq Become Whatever... but let's give them a fair shot, huh? Let's get their security up to strength and help them establish some stability, before we cut, run, and surrender!
no... I have admitted that Iraq is, and will continue to be, a bloodbath.... it will most likely not become a failure because those folks fighting one another do not have the stomach (nor do any of us) for perpetual carnage. When the sides have had enough - or one side has had enough - they will stop fighting...and their neighbors will, after a time, move in to help them stop fighting because an Iraq awash in unending bloody carnage and chaos is not good for any of the folks surrounding it. THis is not a fight that America should or ought to be involved in

If you really honestly feel WE created this mess, you should at least have some moral and ethical conscience about just leaving it a fucked up mess! How is THAT supposed to foster good-will in that part of the world?
If our presence was not making matters worse, I would agree with you...but alas, it is.... so I don't
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How is our presence, training Iraqi security forces, making things worse in a sectarian civil war? I don't understand the connection. What we are doing, is helping the democratically elected government of Iraq, which represents ALL sides, and ALL parties, to establish itself and gain the strength to be self-sustaining... how is our presence causing a problem?
 
THis is not a fight that America should or ought to be involved in

I disagree, I think it's America's duty to be involved in it. Especially if we can help to settle it for good. We all understand you want America lying safely in the lap of the UN, not "involved" in anything.
 
Dixie said:
How is our presence, training Iraqi security forces, making things worse in a sectarian civil war? I don't understand the connection. What we are doing, is helping the democratically elected government of Iraq, which represents ALL sides, and ALL parties, to establish itself and gain the strength to be self-sustaining... how is our presence causing a problem?
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if all we were doing was training folks, there would be little to no problem. But we both know that our mission there is so much more than that.
 
if all we were doing was training folks, there would be little to no problem. But we both know that our mission there is so much more than that.

What else are we doing, Maine? My understanding, most of the patrols are being done by Iraqi's, most all the raids and quelling of the violence, is being done by Iraqi's... what are we doing besides training, Maine?
 
Dixie said:
if all we were doing was training folks, there would be little to no problem. But we both know that our mission there is so much more than that.

What else are we doing, Maine? My understanding, most of the patrols are being done by Iraqi's, most all the raids and quelling of the violence, is being done by Iraqi's... what are we doing besides training, Maine?
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Liar:


Iraq NIE, February 2007:

“Despite real improvements, the Iraqi Security Forces - particularly the Iraqi police - will be hard pressed in the next 12-18 months to execute significantly increased security responsibilities, and particularly to operate independently against shia militias with success.

Sectarian divisions erode the dependability of many units, many are hampered by personnel and equipment shortfalls, and a number of Iraqi units have refused to serve outside the areas where they were recruited.”
 
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Dixie said:
if all we were doing was training folks, there would be little to no problem. But we both know that our mission there is so much more than that.

What else are we doing, Maine? My understanding, most of the patrols are being done by Iraqi's, most all the raids and quelling of the violence, is being done by Iraqi's... what are we doing besides training, Maine?
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so...you really think that the surge of 15K troops into Baghdad are all trainers? the 5K into Anbar are all trainers? YOu honestly think that 130K American troops are in Iraq TODAY and their sole activity is training Iraqis?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!
 
Cypress.... you know...in an effort to be fair, one of us ought to bow out and let Dixie battle just one of us.....

NOT!

I absolutely LOVE bitchslapping him like a little girlieman and then, taking a break and watching you pick it up and continue it without pause.

If ever there was a neocon asshole who needed to feel like our BITCH, it's Dixie.
 
My god Prissy, you post something I say... holler "LIAR!" and then post something totally unrelated to it! What the fuck is wrong with you, do you think people aren't going to pay attention?

YOu honestly think that 130K American troops are in Iraq TODAY and their sole activity is training Iraqis?


I think it's pretty much, Priority One! There are certain things they can't handle yet, and we are there in a support role, but Iraqi's are doing the majority of the heaving lifting, and it will only increase as they gain training and experience. We are not on one or the other side in the so-called Civil War, you've already stated, it is sectarian in nature, so it has nothing to do with us. Our interests lie in the legitimately elected democratic unity government of Iraq, and seeing to it, they are strong enough to stand on their own. How is that causing a problem?
 
Dixie said:
My god Prissy, you post something I say... holler "LIAR!" and then post something totally unrelated to it! What the fuck is wrong with you, do you think people aren't going to pay attention?

YOu honestly think that 130K American troops are in Iraq TODAY and their sole activity is training Iraqis?


I think it's pretty much, Priority One! There are certain things they can't handle yet, and we are there in a support role, but Iraqi's are doing the majority of the heaving lifting, and it will only increase as they gain training and experience. We are not on one or the other side in the so-called Civil War, you've already stated, it is sectarian in nature, so it has nothing to do with us. Our interests lie in the legitimately elected democratic unity government of Iraq, and seeing to it, they are strong enough to stand on their own. How is that causing a problem?
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Whether or not training is a PRIORITY has nothing to do with how many American troops are engaged in that activity. In fact, the significant majority of American combat units are patrolling the mean streets of Baghdad and Anbar Province... and we are sending a surge of 21.5K more of them and the ones we are sending are not trainers, but combat troops - sent to the most hostile areas of the country to attempt to get Iraqi sectarian violence under control. It is a policy designed to put MORE AMericans in harm's way in the middle of a civil war. It is profoundly short sighted and counterproductive.
 
and by all reports, Sadr has Maliki's testicles in a jar on his desk...

the "unity government" is a fucking joke, but we will bullheadedly stick with it as it sinks into the Iraqi desert... and sink right along with it. BRILLIANT!
 
Dixie said:
My god Prissy, you post something I say... holler "LIAR!" and then post something totally unrelated to it! What the fuck is wrong with you, do you think people aren't going to pay attention?

YOu honestly think that 130K American troops are in Iraq TODAY and their sole activity is training Iraqis?


I think it's pretty much, Priority One! There are certain things they can't handle yet, and we are there in a support role, but Iraqi's are doing the majority of the heaving lifting, and it will only increase as they gain training and experience. We are not on one or the other side in the so-called Civil War, you've already stated, it is sectarian in nature, so it has nothing to do with us. Our interests lie in the legitimately elected democratic unity government of Iraq, and seeing to it, they are strong enough to stand on their own. How is that causing a problem?
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"Our interests lie in the legitimately elected democratic unity government of Iraq, and seeing to it, they are strong enough to stand on their own"

Your kool aid talking points are hopelessly out of date. There is no "unity" government in Iraq. Most of the members of parliament have fled the country, and they rarely have enough members to even have a qourum to vote.

The "government" of iraq is nothing more than a coalition of militas. Most of the ministries are infiltrated by militias, and members of the "government" owe their allegiance to one or more sectarian miltias.

Even the Bush adminstration doesn't even talk about Democracy anymore. The NIE doesn't even have the word "democracy" in it: at best, we can hope for a stable government sometime in the far future, perhaps headed by a shia strongman. Or a country partitioned into three antagonistic factions.
 
I am sure that Dixie still believes that the multicultural Jeffersonian democracy blossoming on the banks of the Euphrates is just around the corner.
 
maineman said:
I am sure that Dixie still believes that the multicultural Jeffersonian democracy blossoming on the banks of the Euphrates is just around the corner.
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Though you're basically a douche, I must agree that's an insane dream. however, the only real goal is to be able to guarantee walmart won't lose their investment when they go in.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
I have never understood this weird conception people seem to have that killing people by dropping bombs into their homes from high altitude is somehow better than killing them by car bomb, or by flying a plane into a building.
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I have never understood that, either.
 
I have never understood this weird conception people seem to have that killing people by dropping bombs into their homes from high altitude is somehow better than killing them by car bomb, or by flying a plane into a building.

...or by sawing their heads off and praising Allah while they videotape it for the world to see?

Yeah, the problem is, you don't understand the difference between legitimate military strategy and barbaric acts of terror. In your mind, the end result is the same, so it really doesn't matter, there is no moral judgement made on your part, dead is dead and it doesn't matter how we got there.

You really hit pay dirt here, whether you realize it or not. Your one comment reveals the primary reason most pinheads have never gotten this war, or the War on Terror in general, you don't understand or comprehend the nature of the threat or the evilness of the enemy. To you, what the terrorist do, is no different than what our soldiers do daily, and you are incapable of understanding the difference. This certainly explains a lot!
 
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