I've decided to become a Buddhist

[Diuretic]

The BRAIN does all that there is no OTHER mechanism of will in the human body. The MIND is an esoteric idea. My father has a post doc in Neuropsych. There is no where in the Anatomical charts that point to the mind.

Wasn't there an idea that the pineal gland had something important to do? I think that idea was dumped early though.

 

[Damocles]

Damn look at you! and it only took you 3 and a half lines to get across what I have been trying say all day.

And it was still incorrect metaphysically speaking. The damaged or immature brain analogy notwithstanding.

 

[Diuretic]

This is so contrary to what neuroscience tells us. My experiences, history personality habits perdispositions are ALL IN MY BRAIN. A neuroscientist can stimulate your brain with an eletrode placed in the brain and not just make you remember it, they can make you re-live it. You will smell the smells of that memory, you will feel the temperature. All my experiences, history personality habits perdispositions are OF my brain. I would suggest that you read the holographic brain. It talks alot about peoples memories etc when they have partial or full hemispherectomies. Some memories remain but they fade and become fuzzy. If the MIND was the storage facility of the experiences, history personality habits perdispositions then there should be no fade. There is no nebulus MIND. YOu will find no discussion of it as separate from the brain in neuroscience texts.

Wilder Penfield's experiments at McGill with the electrode were interesting.
But so were the Russians ones, can't think of the name but I remember reading one Russian neurophysiologist, I think he was, who had a patient with an almost perfect eidetic memory who could be walking along a street in Moscow and instantly he would "see" his childhood neighbourhood in St Petersburg (or somewhere). Really interesting stuff.

 

[Damocles]

Again, I'll use the analogy that appears to have been missed.

The brain is the nail, the mind the hammer. That one cannot function without the other, or if one is damaged the other cannot function properly, does not change that the hammer is not the nail.

 

[Beefy]

Much Clearer now, though I still disagree with you. I am not subservient to my brain, I AM my brain. It contains, IMHO, my entire essence. It is completely different than my heart my liver or my leg. It contains every experience that makes me who I am. My self awareness is in my brain. Though I do not buy into all of Descartes, I do believe that my self awareness is what makes me an individual. Cogito Ergo Sum.

Maybe you are not subservient to your brain. But at the risk of sounding esoteric here, maybe you don't know that you're subservient to it.

People are highly habitual creatures. People tend to repeat their behavior in an extremely patternistic ways. People tend to accept their realities in life, in relationships, in jobs, in situations, rather than to create the realities. And creating a reality comes from an honest deviation from the history or perceived personality that one may identify with in their "mind."

It's very hard to get my point across in language because it is not an idea that can be communicated through words so much as it is an idea that can be brought to fruition through acceptance of reality, and acceptance that history is exactly that, history. And the future is exactly that, the future, it doesn't exist.

Reality is not the collective filter of memories and fears that one's mind tends to base reality on. That's my point. Reality is now, not yesterday, not tomorrow, and the mind, and the brain for that matter tend to wallow in the non-present, the one place it doesn't have access to.

 

[Socrtease]

Again, I'll use the analogy that appears to have been missed.

The brain is the nail, the mind the hammer. That one cannot function without the other, or if one or the other is damaged the other cannot function properly, does not change that the hammer is not the nail.

And again I say the separation analogy is esoteric poppycock, balderdash, horsefeathers, poo. There is NO separating the mind from the brain. The Mind is an esoteric abstraction of the brain.

 

[Diuretic]

Again, I'll use the analogy that appears to have been missed.

The brain is the nail, the mind the hammer. That one cannot function without the other, or if one is damaged the other cannot function properly, does not change that the hammer is not the nail.

I don't usually critique analogies but that analogy isn't working. You can't us an analogy like that, there simply aren't enough similarities. You're using two inert objects as examples. If I don't pick up the hammer then both the hammer and the nail will remain where they are, nothing is happening.

I can't think of an analogy for this, all I can say is that the brain - particularly the front lobe of the cerebral cortex - functions in such a way as to create the awareness that humans call "mind."

 

[Damocles]

And again I say the separation analogy is esoteric poppycock, balderdash, horsefeathers, poo. There is NO separating the mind from the brain. The Mind is an esoteric abstraction of the brain.

And this is simply somebody who believes only in the material that they can touch or see. One who could never be a Quantum Physicist as much of what they speak of isn't even understood by themselves.

The brain is a storage device and the mainboard. The mind is the programmer. There are any number of analogies. As I said, if one is damaged the other cannot function properly, to say, "I know this guy who is brain damaged and his personality changed" is not evidence of any idea of "wrong" in what I am saying.

To dismiss it as "poppycock" simply because you do not want to think beyond three dimensions is self-limiting denial, and ignores the fantastic discoveries that even science has found that make up this world that surrounds us.

 

[Diuretic]

Maybe you are not subservient to your brain. But at the risk of sounding esoteric here, maybe you don't know that you're subservient to it.

People are highly habitual creatures. People tend to repeat their behavior in an extremely patternistic ways. People tend to accept their realities in life, in relationships, in jobs, in situations, rather than to create the realities. And creating a reality comes from an honest deviation from the history or perceived personality that one may identify with in their "mind."

It's very hard to get my point across in language because it is not an idea that can be communicated through words so much as it is an idea that can be brought to fruition through acceptance of reality, and acceptance that history is exactly that, history. And the future is exactly that, the future, it doesn't exist.

Reality is not the collective filter of memories and fears that one's mind tends to base reality on. That's my point. Reality is now, not yesterday, not tomorrow, and the mind, and the brain for that matter tend to wallow in the non-present, the one place it doesn't have access to.

The evolution of humans and our brains is a wonderful thing. All the way from the little reptilian bit right out to that lovely cortex, the big mess that makes us superior animals.

 

[Damocles]

I don't usually critique analogies but that analogy isn't working. You can't us an analogy like that, there simply aren't enough similarities. You're using two inert objects as examples. If I don't pick up the hammer then both the hammer and the nail will remain where they are, nothing is happening.

I can't think of an analogy for this, all I can say is that the brain - particularly the front lobe of the cerebral cortex - functions in such a way as to create the awareness that humans call "mind."

As I said, it was a "crude" analogy.

Two parts used together and properly can make wonders happen, when one is damaged, either one, it can create quite a different result.

What you describe is only what we can see in the three dimensions that our limited selves understand. Ask a physicist, there is more to this world than those three dimensions. Limiting all knowledge and therefore all being to only those things that are in those three dimension (four if you are counting time), isn't "wise", it is simply self-limiting. Even science doesn't limit itself in that way.

 

[Diuretic]

And this is simply somebody who believes only in the material that they can touch or see. One who could never be a Quantum Physicist as much of what they speak of isn't even understood by themselves.

The brain is a storage device and the mainboard. The mind is the programmer. There are any number of analogies. As I said, if one is damaged the other cannot function properly, to say, "I know this guy who is brain damaged and his personality changed" is not evidence of any idea of "wrong" in what I am saying.

To dismiss it as "poppycock" simply because you do not want to think beyond three dimensions is self-limiting denial, and ignores the fantastic discoveries that even science has found that make up this world that surrounds us.

Think of the mainboard as being conscious and you get it. There is no external programmer, the mainboard does the lot.

 

[Socrtease]

So is Schizophrenia a disease of the mind or the brain?

 

[Damocles]

Think of the mainboard as being conscious and you get it. There is no external programmer, the mainboard does the lot.

Again, only if you choose to believe that. The "mind" is the portion that is self-aware. Just being conscious doesn't make a whole.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

And this is simply somebody who believes only in the material that they can touch or see. One who could never be a Quantum Physicist as much of what they speak of isn't even understood by themselves.

The brain is a storage device and the mainboard. The mind is the programmer. There are any number of analogies. As I said, if one is damaged the other cannot function properly, to say, "I know this guy who is brain damaged and his personality changed" is not evidence of any idea of "wrong" in what I am saying.

To dismiss it as "poppycock" simply because you do not want to think beyond three dimensions is self-limiting denial, and ignores the fantastic discoveries that even science has found that make up this world that surrounds us.

The mind is part of the brain. THought is the illusion of all of your neurons carrying out all of their specific functions in tandem.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

So Damocles.

Where is the "mind" located?

 

[Damocles]

So is Schizophrenia a disease of the mind or the brain?

I don't believe that we have discovered the fundamental core cause of schizophrenia, had we done so there would be an actual cure rather than it be only barely controlled through constant medication.

 

[Damocles]

The mind is part of the brain. THought is the illusion of all of your neurons carrying out all of their specific functions in tandem.

Again, limiting yourself to only what you want it to be, life is less complicated if all we are is gray matter and meat with a bit of electricity.

Again, even physicists do not limit their thought to the four human-perceived dimensions, why do you think our existence is so limited?

 

[Damocles]

So Damocles.

Where is the "mind" located?

Well, it would seem I have suggested several times where I believe it may be "located". If you cannot read what I write then maybe you should step into a conversation more at your level.

"Even a physicist doesn't limit themselves..." <--- Hint, Hint.

 

[Diuretic]

As I said, it was a "crude" analogy.

Two parts used together and properly can make wonders happen, when one is damaged, either one, it can create quite a different result.

What you describe is only what we can see in the three dimensions that our limited selves understand. Ask a physicist, there is more to this world than those three dimensions. Limiting all knowledge and therefore all being to only those things, isn't "wise", it is simply self-limiting.

I don't want to ask a physicist about brain physiology. I do know a physicist but all he do is tell me about physics (he's a patent attorney by profession so he can tell me about patent law as well but that's by the by).

I'm pretty sure that our physical world is interpreted by our brains. I think that there are certain areas in our cortex that provide functioning areas. If you bang me on the back of the head I'm going to see stars because my occipital lobe got a belting. There's nothing in front of me, no light coming into my eyes, I "see" stars because the receptors in the occipital lobe are registering the force of the blow. I can feel a hot stove because the receptor area in my brain is telling me I have my hand on a gas ring and to get it off quick before serious damage is done to my hand. I known when I need to take a leak because the receptor area in my brain is interpreting signals from my bladder.

I can think in abstract terms because my frontal lobe functions to allow me to do so and because I've stored in my long-term memory experiences - that is, items taken in by my sense organs - which I can call from that long term memory.

 

[Diuretic]

Again, only if you choose to believe that. The "mind" is the portion that is self-aware. Just being conscious doesn't make a whole.

What I choose to believe is irrelevant. It's what other, learned people have found out that's important.