I've decided to become a Buddhist

Diuretic said:
I don't want to ask a physicist about brain physiology. I do know a physicist but all he do is tell me about physics (he's a patent attorney by profession so he can tell me about patent law as well but that's by the by).

I'm pretty sure that our physical world is interpreted by our brains. I think that there are certain areas in our cortex that provide functioning areas. If you bang me on the back of the head I'm going to see stars because my occipital lobe got a belting. There's nothing in front of me, no light coming into my eyes, I "see" stars because the receptors in the occipital lobe are registering the force of the blow. I can feel a hot stove because the receptor area in my brain is telling me I have my hand on a gas ring and to get it off quick before serious damage is done to my hand. I known when I need to take a leak because the receptor area in my brain is interpreting signals from my bladder.

I can think in abstract terms because my frontal lobe functions to allow me to do so and because I've stored in my long-term memory experiences - that is, items taken in by my sense organs - which I can call from that long term memory.
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I think you're patently missing the point.
 
Damocles said:
I don't believe that we have discovered the fundamental core cause of schizophrenia, had we done so there would be an actual cure rather than it be only barely controlled through constant medication.
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But medication acts on the brain so it seems to be organic.
 
Diuretic said:
I don't want to ask a physicist about brain physiology. I do know a physicist but all he do is tell me about physics (he's a patent attorney by profession so he can tell me about patent law as well but that's by the by).

I'm pretty sure that our physical world is interpreted by our brains. I think that there are certain areas in our cortex that provide functioning areas. If you bang me on the back of the head I'm going to see stars because my occipital lobe got a belting. There's nothing in front of me, no light coming into my eyes, I "see" stars because the receptors in the occipital lobe are registering the force of the blow. I can feel a hot stove because the receptor area in my brain is telling me I have my hand on a gas ring and to get it off quick before serious damage is done to my hand. I known when I need to take a leak because the receptor area in my brain is interpreting signals from my bladder.

I can think in abstract terms because my frontal lobe functions to allow me to do so and because I've stored in my long-term memory experiences - that is, items taken in by my sense organs - which I can call from that long term memory.
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And all of this is guided by what is called the "mind" which may or may not be located within that gray matter. You choose to limit yourself to the confines of what you perceive. I choose to think beyond those confines and find that science often applies to my view of things as there is much to this universe that we cannot perceive.
 
Diuretic said:
What I choose to believe is irrelevant. It's what other, learned people have found out that's important.
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Which is what I am pointing out. Quantum physicists have proved there are many dimensions that we cannot perceive. The idea that all of what we are is within our perception is what you want to believe, not what you have any evidence of. It takes faith to believe something without evidence like that, I simply see it as possible that it is much larger than that.

I do not "know" where the mind is. I am simply describing the difference as understood by those whose job it is to describe these things...

Mind directs the brain in its thought. Whether it is part of your gray matter or something without doesn't matter.

It is the CPU, the mainboard may be entirely functional, but without the CPU you ain't going to get it to work.
 
Damocles said:
Again, limiting yourself to only what you want it to be, life is less complicated if all we are is gray matter and meat with a bit of electricity.

Again, even physicists do not limit their thought to the four human-perceived dimensions, why do you think our existence is so limited?
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...

Because it is.
 
Damocles said:
And all of this is guided by what is called the "mind" which may or may not be located within that gray matter. You choose to limit yourself to the confines of what you perceive. I choose to think beyond those confines and find that science often applies to my view of things as there is much to this universe that we cannot perceive.
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I don't want to sound difficult but whether or not you choose to think beyond any confines is up to you. But they will simply be your thoughts, your ideas, until you can provide proof that they exist outside of your mind.
 
This entire mind/body duality is contrary to modern neuroscience. Few if ANY neuroscientists believe in it. There are NO scientific theories that prove this dualism. Further, there are decent MRI studies and even better PET scan studies that show when people are, for an example, attracted to a face or a body there is a corresponding brain reaction. Areas of the brain have greater blood flow and become more active. There are things that in the past would have been associated with "the mind".
 
An image for your viewing pleasure:

dicksled1.jpg
 
Damocles said:
Which is what I am pointing out. Quantum physicists have proved there are many dimensions that we cannot perceive. The idea that all of what we are is within our perception is what you want to believe, not what you have any evidence of. It takes faith to believe something without evidence like that.
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I know not a thing about quantum physics. I don't know much about anything really. But it seems to me that if quantum phyicists can prove there are other dimensions that we can't perceive, then how can they do that if we can't perceive them?
 
Watermark said:
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Because it is.
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But it isn't. Ignoring science because you find it convenient is simply ignorance. Scientists have shown that there are other dimensions that we cannot perceive. Your insistence that your world is solely made up of the dimensions you perceive is deliberate self-limitation.
 
Socrtease said:
This entire mind/body duality is contrary to modern neuroscience. Few if ANY neuroscientists believe in it. There are NO scientific theories that prove this dualism. Further, there are decent MRI studies and even better PET scan studies that show when people are, for an example, attracted to a face or a body there is a corresponding brain reaction. Areas of the brain have greater blood flow and become more active. There are things that in the past would have been associated with "the mind".
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I remember those. I think there were different colours in brain scans to indicate increased activity in certain locales of the cortex when different brain functions were happening. Smart meat does it again.
 
Diuretic said:
Not deliberately. If I'm just thick then fair enough. If someone could be kind enough to explain it in simple terms I'd be grateful.
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Actually, I think you're quite open minded.

I've tried to explain that the term "mind" describes an abstract manifestation of one's self. It is what makes people think of themselves as that particular person. The brain is the vehicle that the "mind" uses in order to make us us, or whatever we perceive or identify ourselves with.

We can use our minds as we see fit, or our minds can overtake us and hijack our identity.

My point is that people use minds, and brains to describe themselves, where it is actually possible and more honest to describe one's self using neither.
 
Damocles said:
But it isn't. Ignoring science because you find it convenient is simply ignorance. Scientists have shown that there are other dimensions that we cannot perceive. Your insistence that your world is solely made up of the dimensions you perceive is deliberate self-limitation.
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Yeah. Scientists have shown that there are extra dimensions on a subatomic level. Don't know how that proves the concept of dualism, but whatever.
 
Diuretic said:
I know not a thing about quantum physics. I don't know much about anything really. But it seems to me that if quantum phyicists can prove there are other dimensions that we can't perceive, then how can they do that if we can't perceive them?
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We can perceive the reaction of things in those we can perceive to those that are outside of those we can perceive. Have you ever read how they proved there are other universes? They used light and its separation, and observing its reaction they were able to prove by its action in these perceived dimensions that others exist.

They also use mathematics and applied mathematics. There is much to this world that we cannot perceive with our limited senses, that doesn't make them not exist.
 
Beefy said:
Actually, I think you're quite open minded.

I've tried to explain that the term "mind" describes an abstract manifestation of one's self. It is what makes people think of themselves as that particular person. The brain is the vehicle that the "mind" uses in order to make us us, or whatever we perceive or identify ourselves with.

We can use our minds as we see fit, or our minds can overtake us and hijack our identity.

My point is that people use minds, and brains to describe themselves, where it is actually possible and more honest to describe one's self using neither.
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OK, so you're just using the "Mind" as a concept, right? Not as some other actually existing body out somewhere?
 
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