Jesus
- Thread starter Brent
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Damo, here is the text from Matthew:
Jesus at the Temple
12Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer,'[e] but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'[f]"
14The blind and the lame came to him at the temple, and he healed them. 15But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant.
16"Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him.
"Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read,
" 'From the lips of children and infants
you have ordained praise'[g]?"
17And he left them and went out of the city to Bethany, where he spent the night.
What I need to do is find the other texts involved in the other Gospels to get the whole picture, which I am doing right now...brb...
Jesus at the Temple
12Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer,'[e] but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'[f]"
14The blind and the lame came to him at the temple, and he healed them. 15But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant.
16"Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him.
"Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read,
" 'From the lips of children and infants
you have ordained praise'[g]?"
17And he left them and went out of the city to Bethany, where he spent the night.
What I need to do is find the other texts involved in the other Gospels to get the whole picture, which I am doing right now...brb...
I already posted the specific text of which I was speaking.
I even bolded the portion of which I am speaking...
no Damo, I finally found your passage that you are using from John 2:15 and it DOES NOT SAY THAT HE WHIPPED THE MONEY CHANGERS...
15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
Note!
That the whip used to chase out both sheep and cattle is in a separated part of the verse saying he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their temples.
I believe it is you that has misunderstood this passage.
either way, I can agree to disagree with you.
Brent
Ahorrado por Gracia
Any evidence to support that, AnyoldIron? Funny...you claim to believe only what is supported by evidence, but there is nothing whatsoever to support your claims regarding Jesus Christ.
And drove ALL OF THEM from the temple, <-there is a comma here to annotate a new group that he ALSO drove out... , the cattle and sheep... so forth...
Care, he used a whip to drive these people from the temple. To those who sold doves he only said 'get out'...
Of course, before you didn't even want to admit he had a whip at all.
Always read the text and note how careful they were with those commas throughout.
Care, he used a whip to drive these people from the temple. To those who sold doves he only said 'get out'...
Of course, before you didn't even want to admit he had a whip at all.
Always read the text and note how careful they were with those commas throughout.
no Damo, I finally found your passage that you are using from John 2:15 and it DOES NOT SAY THAT HE WHIPPED THE MONEY CHANGERS...
15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
Note!
That the whip used to chase out both sheep and cattle is in a separated part of the verse saying he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their temples.
I believe it is you that has misunderstood this passage.
either way, I can agree to disagree with you.
I believe you have misunderstood the passage. The comma separation denotes a new group that he also drove out. See the above post...
Previously you were attempting to say he didn't even HAVE a whip and because he was a carpenter on a donkey couldn't get one....
Now you are pretending that when he drove them out it was just the cattle and sheep...
Rubbish.
In this verse he was warning his followers of the persecution that was to follow and was telling them to arm themselves against it.
Here is a decent site on the "pacifism" of Christ...
http://www.jamesanderson-writer.co.uk/jesus-not-a-pacifist.html
brent,
here is the verse in context....
Luke
35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied.
now , Jesus did say to them when they reported back, that they had in their posession 2 swords, and he replied, ''That is enough''...
he was not sending them to war with anyone, he was telling them to be prepared to defend themselves.
soooooo, what is it that makes this...''a great verse'' to you?
here is the verse in context....
Luke
35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied.
now , Jesus did say to them when they reported back, that they had in their posession 2 swords, and he replied, ''That is enough''...
he was not sending them to war with anyone, he was telling them to be prepared to defend themselves.
soooooo, what is it that makes this...''a great verse'' to you?
Read the article I posted. He was also clearly not telling them not to defend themselves.
You will also notice that in that article the whole of the scripture was listed. I am not avoiding the context, I include it in my interpretation.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
he also advised people to pay their taxes and follow the law .. "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceaser's"
I think a lot of people presume that Jesus is saying, pay your taxes and follow the law, but you have to read it carefully to understand what he meant. It is more of an advocation of fairness than anything else, it is articulating the message that we should pay Caesar for what is due him, not simply whatever he says we owe. It is precisely this misconception people have, that allows our government to continue raping us, while do-gooders misuse this scripture to make it alright. This misinterpretation presumes that whatever Caesar claims, is rightfully his, and we should capitulate. Read carefully, Caesar deserves what is Caesars, and nothing more.
I think a lot of people presume that Jesus is saying, pay your taxes and follow the law, but you have to read it carefully to understand what he meant. It is more of an advocation of fairness than anything else, it is articulating the message that we should pay Caesar for what is due him, not simply whatever he says we owe. It is precisely this misconception people have, that allows our government to continue raping us, while do-gooders misuse this scripture to make it alright. This misinterpretation presumes that whatever Caesar claims, is rightfully his, and we should capitulate. Read carefully, Caesar deserves what is Caesars, and nothing more.
no, previously, i was reading the scripture from Matthew, which mentioned no such thing.
my comment about him being a carpenter that carried no whips was absolutely correct and a deduction on my part, i admit.
when i found the more descriptive scripture in a passage in the gospel of john that was given on the site, i immediately thanked you for making me aware of it.
this passage confirmed he carried no whips with him to punish and chase PEOPLE or ANIMALS away with and that i was correct in my assumptions, because it noted that he had to make them.
and i was also correct in that it says NO WHERE in this scripture that he used these whips he made to strike by whipping the men, these money changers...it specifically says, at least in the New International version that i posted from that he used the whips to chase out, ''BOTH sheep and cattle... and
16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"
i am sorry you feel it is RUBBISH...let's just say, you are incorrect in prejudging such!!!!
care
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so please answer why the Bible says that Jesus answered that 2 swords were enough damo? do you know?
btw, i love this kind of discussion, hearing others thoughts on these things, and differences are MEANT to be discussed!
Read the other one that I posted about the whole "market" thing.
It's all good. There are other verses that are also clear on the Jesus and Pacifist thing, that you would prefer to ignore. "he wasn't telling them to go to war... " Yeah but he sure wasn't telling them to sit on their hands either.
I think you put your prejudice, what you WANT to believe onto the scripture, while somebody from the outside reads what it actually says.
You are wrong, he (John) was speaking of the types of changers Jesus drove from the temple... "both cattle and sheep" the only ones he didn't drive were also mentioned, he told them to "get out of here"...
I am not "interpreting" it to my personal prejudice of christ. I am reading what the text actually says.