JPP Cup Debate Championship Field Is Set

Mott, I'm curious....when you asked Thorn if she would be a judge did she actually say "yes" or did she say "I'm leaving and you will never see me again!"..........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
Mott, I'm curious....when you asked Thorn if she would be a judge did she actually say "yes" or did she say "I'm leaving and you will never see me again!"..........
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:D

I think we've all had the same problem at one time or another.

You e-mail a woman one day and the next thing you know she's moved to another country, changed her name and issued a restraining order against you, leaving you to spend the next 3 months in a prison cell plagued with images of revenge and murd...mmm...maybe i should stop typing now.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
Mott, I'm curious....when you asked Thorn if she would be a judge did she actually say "yes" or did she say "I'm leaving and you will never see me again!"..........
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I hear ya man. I have no idea what happened to her. Let's be patient. If we don't hear from her in a week, looks like we'll need to pick a new judge.
 
charver said:
:D

I think we've all had the same problem at one time or another.

You e-mail a woman one day and the next thing you know she's moved to another country, changed her name and issued a restraining order against you, leaving you to spend the next 3 months in a prison cell plagued with images of revenge and murd...mmm...maybe i should stop typing now.
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Naaa you're all right. Sounds like a pretty normal date to me.
 
charver said:
:D

I think we've all had the same problem at one time or another.

You e-mail a woman one day and the next thing you know she's moved to another country, changed her name and issued a restraining order against you, leaving you to spend the next 3 months in a prison cell plagued with images of revenge and murd...mmm...maybe i should stop typing now.
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Soooo... what was in the e-mail? :cool:
 
Mott the Hoople said:
We should probably create a new thread for this but my concern about ADD meds is it really treating a problem or do they treat the signs/symptoms of underlying probles?

In my case, as a youth, ADD drugs were definately treating the signs/symptoms of other problems. My physician at the time (and later when my father became one) practiced the holistic approach and their approach to managing ADD and Hyperactivity was that it was a sign of imbalanced nutrition and lack of exercise. I was started on a program of 30 min to 1 hour of structured exercise a day and my diet was changed to decrease sugar consumption and processed foods (i.e. junk foods). Fruits and vegetables were increased (which I fought) as part of my diet and my father bought me a bike and started taking me to the track with him to run. In a surprizingly short period of time once these underlying problems were addressed the hyperactivity and ADD were under control (the structured exercise really helped).

I can use another example of where meds tend to be over prescribed to treat signs/symptoms of problems instead of treating the problem. I went for a physical about a year ago. My blood pressure was 150/90 and my cholesterol was at 220 ug/dl. The MD perscribed me blood pressure meds and statins to reduce my blood pressure and cholesterol. I had neither perscription filled. Why? Cause I didn't think the blood pressure or the high cholesterol were the problem but signs of other problems. What I did do was I talked with my employer about the stress at work, came to some agreements there. I stopped eating out so much, improved my diet by increasing fiber, fruits and vegies and reducing meats, fats, starches and processed foods. I started exercising regularly again (riding my bike and swimming). I've done that consistenly for a year and now my BP is 125/70 and my cholesterol is at 180. In my particular case I think I made the correct decision in avoiding the meds and treating the actual problems causing my high BP and cholesterol.
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You'd be in even better condition if you took the heart medication. Not everything can be fixed by changing your diet. Your body isn't perfect.
 
Wickedjews said:
So do I literally have to take these drugs every day once I start using them for real? That seems pretty extreme. I don't need to concentrate on the weekend. Hopefully the effects tone down over a few days of consistent usage.
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I am not a psychiatric professional, and you shouldn't take my comments as advice, but my personal experience is that it is better to learn to live with yourself than to change yourself with psychotropic drugs.
 
Wickedjews said:
You'd be in even better condition if you took the heart medication.
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I seriously doubt that. Granted what I did is not affective for all persons, there are those who's high BP or cholesterol are ideopathic or inherited. For them these drugs are a boon. For people like me, in my age group, I probably represent the majority for which the holistic approach is unquestionably a superior approach. If they can make the required life style changes.

As for your saying I'd be in better shape if I took the BP meds and Statis, well that's a silly argument. First, by altering my behavior I was able to place my BP and my cholesterol in normal ranges. How possibly can these drugs improve upon that? Second, these drugs have toxicological properties, some of which are quite significant, particularly when used long term. By using the holistic approach I completely avoid the problems associated with drug toxicity.

What's really the issue here though is that most people are not willing to make the needed life style changes and for those who are unwilling or unable to change their behavior then these drugs are a viable alternative though one that can come with a steep price.

Not everything can be fixed by changing your diet. Your body isn't perfect.
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I didn't say that it could. I'm saying that when it can, this is certainly a superior approach. For example, if you can control diabetes through diet and exercise, you're hell of a lot better off then would be taking insulin shots. That's not only the truth, that's just plain common sense.

The reverse is also true. Not every problem can be fixed by using medications and all to many cases using medications doesn't even address the real problem. They address the signs or symptoms of the problem.

My point here is not that all drugs are bad. My point is that you should be conservative in their use. You should know what you are taking, why you are taking it, what the long term consequences of it's use are, the risks for adverse side affects, what conditions would contraindicate its use and you should make a serious analysis of whether or not the medication being taken actually address the true problem or if it's just treating the signs or symptoms of that problem and even then that doesn't preclude their use.

There's nothing wrong with taking medications to treat the signs or symptoms of disease or a medical condition. The point here is to be aware that you are doing so and to evaluate whether the risks are acceptable but you need to read the information available and discuss it with your doctor so you can assess that risk.
 
Damocles said:
I am not a psychiatric professional, and you shouldn't take my comments as advice, but my personal experience is that it is better to learn to live with yourself than to change yourself with psychotropic drugs.
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Living with myself is not the problem. Being able to stay focused in an ever changing world with more and more distractions is a very serious problem.

I am an intelligent person. But all the intellect in the world won't help if you cannot focus and control it. When I was a child I was told it was my fault and I could do so much if I would just apply myself. I can remember thinking "But I AM applying myself". I remember wondering how everyone else did it so easily.

Imagine having a sports car with a powerful, turbo charged engine. Without steering or with a slipping transmission, you don't get anywhere.

For some of us, the ADD meds make the difference between a successful career with a full life, and struggling to make ends meet or balance a checkbook.

There are plenty of examples of ADD and ADHD meds being overprescribed. There is plenty of evidence that sugar is a major culprit in the problems some people have. But there is a solid body of evidence that ADD and ADHD is a very real disorder that, in some people, responds well to medication.



And to whomever made the suggestion earlier, that you would suggest someone throw out their meds, based solely on the limited knowledge you have of the malady and an even more limited knowledge of the patient, is grossly irresponsible.

There are people out there who could be seriously helped by these mnedications. And there are people who refuse to take them because of the irresponsible rumors that have been circulating for years. From Tom Cruise to Rush Limbaugh, celebrities have maligned these medications. While there are certainly circumstances in which they are not appropriate, to dismiss them based on such hype is a huge disservice to the people who need them.
 
Wickedjews said:
This is moralistic nonsense. Your brain isn't perfect.
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Neither are the minds who created the drugs, nor the understanding of what those drugs do to people, perfect.

Drugs are the new religion. We put our faith too much in drugs to solve our problems.
 
I think with most people ADD like symptoms are caused by lack of sleep and exercise. I have been pursuing such routes for more than a year, and while it has helped, I still have problems. ADD drugs really only have bad side effects if they're abused, and the main reason Vyvanze came onto the market is that it's designed to be practically impossible to be abused (taking lots of it doesn't produce a large effect, it just makes it last longer, and the only method of administration that produces an effect is orally. Otherwise its pretty much the same thing as adderall.) Otherwise the primary side effects are things like dry mouth. I can deal with that.
 
Damocles said:
Neither are the minds who created the drugs, nor the understanding of what those drugs do to people, perfect.

Drugs are the new religion. We put our faith too much in drugs to solve our problems.
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We put too much faith in our ability to solve our problems on our own. There is another religion, the purity religion which focuses on saying new age mumbo-jumbo rather than solving problems.
 
Wickedjews said:
We put too much faith in our ability to solve our problems on our own. There is another religion, the purity religion which focuses on saying new age mumbo-jumbo rather than solving problems.
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Again, I simply tell you of my own experience. I think you have some odd belief that what I say has some deeper meaning than that, but it really doesn't. I'm not telling you to have a religious experience, I am telling you that it is a more permanent solution to learn to work around the limitations, sometimes they can even be used to your benefit. The drugs can become a crutch, you'll see this more often in the parent giving the drug to children...
 
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