Kerry won't run

It is hard to adjust to your party falling down. that is why I am basically partyless. It took a while to work all that out though.
m'eh. I'm cool with it. My hope is that this allows the small 'l' libertarians, or western republicans to take the party from the religious right.

Honestly, the idea that we should implant Democracy in every nation is just as bad as the US being the world police. This man who now is President is about as opposite to my ideation that it shocks me he fits in the same party. It does show that there is a large tent though...
 
m'eh. I'm cool with it. My hope is that this allows the small 'l' libertarians, or western republicans to take the party from the religious right.

Honestly, the idea that we should implant Democracy in every nation is just as bad as the US being the world police. This man who now is President is about as opposite to my ideation that it shocks me he fits in the same party. It does show that there is a large tent though...

Yeah but that large tent needs cells in one end....
 
m'eh. I'm cool with it. My hope is that this allows the small 'l' libertarians, or western republicans to take the party from the religious right.

Honestly, the idea that we should implant Democracy in every nation is just as bad as the US being the world police. This man who now is President is about as opposite to my ideation that it shocks me he fits in the same party. It does show that there is a large tent though...


THats my hope also. It would make for a better America if the Religous Right had no political home!

THen we would have two parties I would be comfortable with.
 
Gore didn't run a very good campaign either. Don't get me wrong: I like the guy. I don't think he'd be a very strong candidate though.

Honestly, I think he's happy doing what he's doing. I think he's had the ambition burned out of him. And good for him, I say.
I just can't vote for someone who speaks down to me, especially when I am smarter than they are.


P.S. lab monkey humor - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 
LOL< actually that is 180 out from my intention. I voted for Kerry only because the other choice in the Nov election was far more scary to me.
But I do see what you mean. I never was impressed with Kerry, but Bush scared me before he scared the rest of the country.
Go third party and send a message.
 
Al Gore achually beat Bush in popular votes and the electoral votes are still questionable. Id say he ran a pretty good campaign. Had he embrased President Clinton instead of hide from him I belive Gore would be president today.
First, the popular vote argument is meaningless for several reasons. Second, the electoral votes are not still questionable, and have not been for years.
 
First, the popular vote argument is meaningless for several reasons. Second, the electoral votes are not still questionable, and have not been for years.

They are questionable and you have a different winner based on what you count as a vote...

If you count pregnant and hanging chads Gore wins...

If you only count dimpled chads Bush still wins.

Its all up to interperation as to what counts as a vote!
 
They are questionable and you have a different winner based on what you count as a vote...

If you count pregnant and hanging chads Gore wins...

If you only count dimpled chads Bush still wins.

Its all up to interperation as to what counts as a vote!
If, if, if jarod. When you count the votes per the Florida law in effect at the time of the election, Bush wins. No ifs ands or buts - finis!
 
First, the popular vote argument is meaningless for several reasons. Second, the electoral votes are not still questionable, and have not been for years.

Has the electorial college outlilved it's usefullness ? Should we just go with the popular vote and scrap the electorial college ?
 
They are questionable and you have a different winner based on what you count as a vote...

If you count pregnant and hanging chads Gore wins...

If you only count dimpled chads Bush still wins.

Its all up to interperation as to what counts as a vote!
Psychic determination and guesswork is no way to run an election. There is more than one way to dimple a chad than an attempt to vote. Pretending that a dimpled chad is a clear indication of voting intent is patently ridiculous. One could see somebody almost deciding then, at the last second deciding against the vote, there is a dimpled chad...

Or realizing that they had their puncher in on Gore when they wanted the Libertarian then backing off...

There are about a thousand different scenarios on how a chad could be dimpled, pretending that in every case it is a "clear indication of voter intent" is just silly partisan rhetoric. Follow the law on clear intent and dimpled chads, etc. are just guesswork and not a clear indication.
 
Has the electorial college outlilved it's usefullness ? Should we just go with the popular vote and scrap the electorial college ?
Heck no. The founders knew that there would be times when the popular v electoral were different. They put it in this way because they knew that over time some states would overwhelm others in population and could overpower every election. This gives weight to the larger states but allows the less populated states to also have a strong say.

In most cases the popular vote and the winner will be the same, but trashing the electoral college would be a mistake IMO.
 
If, if, if jarod. When you count the votes per the Florida law in effect at the time of the election, Bush wins. No ifs ands or buts - finis!

Not true, there was no law about hanging and pregnant and dimpled chads... there simply was no law on the subject.
 
Psychic determination and guesswork is no way to run an election. There is more than one way to dimple a chad than an attempt to vote. Pretending that a dimpled chad is a clear indication of voting intent is patently ridiculous. One could see somebody almost deciding then, at the last second deciding against the vote, there is a dimpled chad...

Or realizing that they had their puncher in on Gore when they wanted the Libertarian then backing off...

There are about a thousand different scenarios on how a chad could be dimpled, pretending that in every case it is a "clear indication of voter intent" is just silly partisan rhetoric. Follow the law on clear intent and dimpled chads, etc. are just guesswork and not a clear indication.



I agree, but this is not psychic determination when you know that a condo full of elderly jewish voters did not intend to vote for Buchanon. I still think the electoral count is questionable.. I have always said that. To me its questionable. Cleraly Bush won the political battle after the fact and he became president over Gore. That does not make it right!
 
Not true, there was no law about hanging and pregnant and dimpled chads... there simply was no law on the subject.
There was a ruling on "clear intent" how people interpret that is very different. I have clearly shown how one could not tell by a dimple who they wanted to vote for, there are simply too many scenarios where a chad could get dimpled without such intent.

Also, we can look at the machinery, the cards were designed for only one run, and not handling etc. Several runs through machines can be shown to hang a chad, as well as overhandling, that is also not a "clear intent to vote", it is simply psychic determination and wishful thinking.
 
Has the electorial college outlilved it's usefullness ? Should we just go with the popular vote and scrap the electorial college ?
No, the electoral college gives an uneven advantage to the minority. Much of the design of governmet was in place to prevent, or at least slow down, the ability of the majority to have a free rein without regard to the minority. In a view of the US by counties and population, the straight popular vote would concentrate all the power on the coasts in a little over 500 counties. Candidates would concentrate there and, for the most part, ignore the rest of the country. Effectively, the 'fly-over country' would have no representation given the there are no more state's rights - the direct election of Senators eliminated the states power to counterweight the Federal government. The popular vote would require a change to the Constitutoin because that document gives the states the power to choose their electors in the electoral college. The states have seen fit to do that by a vote of the populace.
 
There was a ruling on "clear intent" how people interpret that is very different. I have clearly shown how one could not tell by a dimple who they wanted to vote for, there are simply too many scenarios where a chad could get dimpled without such intent.

Also, we can look at the machinery, the cards were designed for only one run, and not handling etc. Several runs through machines can be shown to hang a chad, as well as overhandling, that is also not a "clear intent to vote", it is simply psychic determination and wishful thinking.


I disagree in some circumstances. You also have not addressed the Butterfly ballot or the incorrect felon lists and the voter intimidation.
 
"You also have not addressed the Butterfly ballot "

I'll take that... the butterfly ballots in Florida were created in a heavily Democrat county BY democrats. They are the idiots that made it so damn confusing and then tried to act like it wasn't their fault people were confused.

:wall:
 
Not true, there was no law about hanging and pregnant and dimpled chads... there simply was no law on the subject.
Correct, there was no law in place which deemed pregnant and dimpled chads as being a vote; however, statutes that described legal votes were in place.
 
"You also have not addressed the Butterfly ballot "

I'll take that... the butterfly ballots in Florida were created in a heavily Democrat county BY democrats. They are the idiots that made it so damn confusing and then tried to act like it wasn't their fault people were confused.

:wall:

Umm we had the butterfly type ballots in Tampa too. But not so many furiners and oldsters.
 
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