Let's All Chant the New Mantra: "Fatherland, Socialism or Death"

TheDanold

Unimatrix
Anyone else ever find it eerie when kids in school are made to chant leftist slogans? The details of Chavez's plan to "educate" (indoctrinate) kids in schools are shown, I hope all the lefties note carefully that Venezuela is no different than the rest of the socities that went to the left in the 20th century, they all praise community and working together and hatred to individualism, but that of course never applies to their iconic leaders:

"VENEZUELAN parents can have any schooling they like for their children—so long as it's red. That is the message from President Hugo Chávez and his elder brother Adán, a Marxist physics teacher who is the education minister. It is spelt out in a 549-page draft education plan recently leaked to the press. It was expressed, too, at the start of the school year last month, when television showed images of high-school pupils chanting “fatherland, socialism or death!” and singing songs in praise of the president.

For many teachers and middle-class parents this smacks of an Orwellian nightmare. Fears of government intervention in private schools brought them on to the streets in the early years of Mr Chávez's presidency, and helped provoke the coup that briefly ousted him from power in 2002. Back then, the government denied that it was seeking to indoctrinate youngsters. But both Chávez brothers now say that the aim of the new education plan is “the formation of the new man”.

That phrase was coined by Ernesto “Che” Guevara in the early years of the Cuban revolution. His “new man” would be motivated by moral rather than material incentives. Cuba's communist government has pursued this chimera in vain for decades. Now its Venezuelan ally is embarking on the quest. “The old values of individualism, capitalism and egoism must be demolished,” says the president. “New values must be created, and that can only be done through education.”

The government has neither confirmed nor denied the authenticity of the leaked draft curriculum. But its contents chime with many official statements. It says that children will be taught that capitalism is “a form of world domination” associated with imperialism. They will learn about liberation movements, but only socialist ones. Their study of Latin American economic integration excludes the Andean Community; the president cancelled Venezuela's membership of this because it was dominated by “neoliberal” thinking.

By their mid-teens pupils will need to show “a critical attitude towards any attempt at internal or external aggression”. They will also have to develop “community-information mechanisms” (ie, say opponents, a network of spies) to defend national sovereignty. Officials admit that this is an ideological project, but so are all education curriculums, they say.

Already, according to the education ministry, 150,000 teachers have taken part in courses to prepare them for the new “Bolivarian Education System”, recently defined by the president as “red, very red”. Even those sympathetic to the idea remain confused, however, because they have yet to receive a copy of the curriculum. Nonetheless, the new approach is being gradually adopted by state schools, and will be applied to private ones next year. About a fifth of Venezuelan children are taught in private schools, and the government says that these will not be abolished. But the president has warned them that if they decline to implement the new curriculum they will be taken over by the state.

Mr Chávez has always seen education as the key to making his “revolution” irreversible. He can claim an electoral mandate for its reform. During the campaign for December's presidential election (in which he won 62% of the vote) he cited Antonio Gramsci, an Italian Marxist who preached the need to replace capitalist with socialist “hegemony”, by taking over those institutions that transmit the values of society. The principal carriers of the capitalist virus, Mr Chávez said, were the church, the schools and the media.

In May he refused to renew the broadcasting licence of the main opposition television channel. Since the Catholic church has influence over private schooling, the education reform hits the other two targets in one blow. Under the new plan, Catholic doctrine could still be taught in schools, but would no longer be compulsory.

Venezuela's 1999 constitution, inspired by Mr Chávez, guarantees “respect for all currents of thought” in education. This is not one of the articles he wants to change in a referendum due in December. But it seems as if it will be disregarded. Asked recently about the 40% of voters who have consistently opposed the president, Adán Chávez said those who were “not oligarchs” would soon recognise their error. That theory could soon be tested again on Venezuela's streets."
http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9947046
 
I find it eerie when kids are made to recite any slogans in school be it leftist, fascist or pledging allegiance to a flag.
 
It's a huge wank and best left to adults who want to dress up in weird uniforms and parade with even stranger looking flags.
 
I find it eerie when kids are made to recite any slogans in school be it leftist, fascist or pledging allegiance to a flag.
Amazingly, nobody is forced to say the pledge of allegiance here. Do they make you do that on that side of the pond?
 
So they don't recite it in schools then? That's a relief.
Usually they play it over a sound system, you can choose to say it or not. Some of the students sit and simply mock people who say it. Depending on which school district you are from.
 
Usually they play it over a sound system, you can choose to say it or not. Some of the students sit and simply mock people who say it. Depending on which school district you are from.

But why does it have a place in school anyway?
 
Sounds like we went to school in two different countries.
I guess so. Of course, I speak of the current environment.

My friend and I, in first grade, would do a parody pledge to the pencil sharpener, or to the desk, or to...

I was never once sent to the Principal, or even beaten up for it, or anything at all. The teacher would be annoyed, and for a while she would send Danny out of the classroom so we wouldn't be together during the pledge and thus disrupt things. But even that ended. I think she resigned herself to our antics....
 
I guess so. Of course, I speak of the current environment.

My friend and I, in first grade, would do a parody pledge to the pencil sharpener, or to the desk, or to...

I was never once sent to the Principal, or even beaten up for it, or anything at all. The teacher would be annoyed, and for a while she would send Danny out of the classroom so we wouldn't be together during the pledge and thus disrupt things. But even that ended. I think she resigned herself to our antics....

You speak of the current environment? Are you in school currently? Because unless you are the kid, note I specified "trying be a kid" then why are you speaking to this?
 
But why does it have a place in school anyway?
Portions of school teach you things such as that. I don't remember ever doing it once we were past 1st grade. I think it was so we would know the same things that we require from new citizens from other nations.

Nowadays there are places that require it be played daily. And personally I think they were made because of nationalism. But there is no requirement, and under current societal norms, nobody is mocked for not saying it.
 
You speak of the current environment? Are you in school currently? Because unless you are the kid, note I specified "trying be a kid" then why are you speaking to this?
Should have then said "spoke".

I then used an anecdotal story of my past to give you an idea that I too was a kid who didn't always "say the pledge" and was never subsequently 'punished' for it in any way.
 
Should have then said "spoke".

I then used an anecdotal story of my past to give you an idea that I too was a kid who didn't always "say the pledge" and was never subsequently 'punished' for it in any way.

Well, when I was in Jr high school, I rose and said it everyday, we all did. Nobody "mocked it', ever. It was not done. Now I went to school what a couple of years after you? So how could it be that different? I really wonder about this.

Anyway, one day, completely by accident (I was not some little jr radical), I was still talking to my friend and didn't realize it had started, and my teacher literally stopped the entire class by screaming, at the top of his lungs, GET UP GET UP, NO NO NO , YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT IN MY CLASS, I FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY"

Ok?

So, don't tell me your fairy tales.
 
I don't know if any of you ever go to city council meetings, planning commission meetings, or other state and local government meetings, but I've found that they always say the pledge before the meeting starts.

Its not that big a deal. They don't force you to say it. But, it feels wierd and uncomfortable if you sit there and refuse to stand.
 
Well, when I was in Jr high school, I rose and said it everyday, we all did. Nobody "mocked it', ever. It was not done. Now I went to school what a couple of years after you? So how could it be that different? I really wonder about this.

Anyway, one day, completely by accident (I was not some little jr radical), I was still talking to my friend and didn't realize it had started, and my teacher literally stopped the entire class by screaming, at the top of his lungs, GET UP GET UP, NO NO NO , YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT IN MY CLASS, I FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY"

Ok?

So, don't tell me your fairy tales.


We said it from first grade on, and in those early years I didn't even have a clue what the words meant. I don't recall anyone sitting it out or mocking it. We we're indoctrinated from age 6, that its just something you did - the pledge
 
Well, when I was in Jr high school, I rose and said it everyday, we all did. Nobody "mocked it', ever. It was not done. Now I went to school what a couple of years after you? So how could it be that different? I really wonder about this.

Anyway, one day, completely by accident (I was not some little jr radical), I was still talking to my friend and didn't realize it had started, and my teacher literally stopped the entire class by screaming, at the top of his lungs, GET UP GET UP, NO NO NO , YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT IN MY CLASS, I FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY"

Ok?

So, don't tell me your fairy tales.
We never said it past the first grade. Seriously. We didn't. We never said it in Junior High. Absolutely nobody got up when they played it in HS. Most of us were between classes at that time anyway.
 
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