Let's All Chant the New Mantra: "Fatherland, Socialism or Death"

We never said the pledge in High School, Middle School was a once a week thing and it wasn't a big deal, lots of kids mocked it. In Elementary school, we were asked to stand and put our hands over our hearts, and it got silly after doing it every day so kids would make up different words and we'd all laugh.
 
TheDanold said:
You can always tell when a lefty is trapped when he has to play the Iraq card. Obviously Iraq has nothing to do with this and for that matter nor do American kids get indoctrinated about Iraq one way or the other.
I never denied Chavez was popular, does that make this more legitimate to you? Was Bush's popularity when it was high make you feel justified in anything he did?

These kids are being indoctrinated, with learning hate towards individualism and having to be for Socialism or death.


You got any anything else in your hand red herring king? Maybe next time try an actual rebuttal.
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First, let start with the reality that you don't give a fuck about Venezuelan children, no different than you don't give a fuck about Iraqi children.

They're just props for your propaganda.

The "Iraq card" :)

You can always tell when a conservative has no argument when they start hiding behind invented "cards".

When Bush was "popular" .. the American people are still paying for being stupid enough to make him popular. I was never that stupid thank you, but Bush's "popularity" was internal to America and it was the right of Americans to be that incredibly dumb. It had nothing to do with what Venezuelans thought of him.

The same is true in Venezuela .. whether Chavez succeeds or fails doesn't have shit to do with you.

You're just looking for scape goats and someone, anyone, to blame and take the focus of the monumental ignorance of failed right-wing ideology.

If you don't like my rebuttal .. who the fuck cares? You're a right-winger, thus, a political failure.
 
Watermark said:
It's micheal Newdow. The ultra-right wingers go their panties in a twist because they believed their ability to force students to worship God in the pledge was being revoked, so in Mississippi "In God we trust" (omitting every other portion of the pledge, like the parts about liberty and other such trivial nonsense) was put on placards in ever single room in the state, and we were forced by threat of being beaten up and discriminated against by our teachers to worship God in the pledge on a daily basis.
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That's freedom for ya! And we're spreading it!
 
blackascoal said:
First, let start with the reality that you don't give a fuck about Venezuelan children, no different than you don't give a fuck about Iraqi children.
They're just props for your propaganda.
The "Iraq card" :)
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Actually I've mentioned before a few times that one of the few good things to come out of the Iraq war is that at least children are not being imprisoned as they were under Saddam.
Yes some are dying, though not intentionally by America, which contrasts to Saddam's intentional targetting of children and others of certain ethnic variety.

As for Venezuela, part of this post is of concern about what goes in other countries to their citizens and I do find it more of a concern when it is children being indoctrinated.

Don't you fucking lecture me about what I care about, I have made a concious effort to speak out on these things, I can remember no lefty speaking out against the tens of millions that died in Socialism/Communism with those great programs you love of everyone working together and starving together.

blackascoal said:
You can always tell when a conservative has no argument when they start hiding behind invented "cards".
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Whose hiding behind it dolt? I just called you on it. You are the one hiding by turning to Iraq on an issue that solely concerns Venezuela.

blackascoal said:
When Bush was "popular" .. the American people are still paying for being stupid enough to make him popular. I was never that stupid thank you, but Bush's "popularity" was internal to America and it was the right of Americans to be that incredibly dumb. It had nothing to do with what Venezuelans thought of him.
The same is true in Venezuela .. whether Chavez succeeds or fails doesn't have shit to do with you.
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Too bad, I do care and more than that these always serve as warnings for what can happen under going further to the left.
Leftism does not work because it relies on doers to pay for others, so it therefore requires force and forceful means to make people work and pay for others.

blackascoal said:
You're just looking for scape goats and someone, anyone, to blame and take the focus of the monumental ignorance of failed right-wing ideology.
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Um no, I've already said over and over that the Iraq war that Bush and Demopublicans voted for is wrong.
Can you ever understand that there is more to life than Iraq and that most people are not obsessed 24/7 about Iraq and believing Iraq somehow MUST creep into every single discussion on any issue?

blackascoal said:
If you don't like my rebuttal .. who the fuck cares? You're a right-winger, thus, a political failure.
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You care, which you have proved by responding, if you didn't, you wouldn't. Think about it stupid.
 
Actually I've mentioned before a few times that one of the few good things to come out of the Iraq war is that at least children are not being imprisoned as they were under Saddam.
//

right we just kill em....
 
Damocles said:
Portions of school teach you things such as that. I don't remember ever doing it once we were past 1st grade. I think it was so we would know the same things that we require from new citizens from other nations.

Nowadays there are places that require it be played daily. And personally I think they were made because of nationalism. But there is no requirement, and under current societal norms, nobody is mocked for not saying it.
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When I was growing up in the 70's we said it everyday in Elementary School. I never said it, and I never stood for it. It is INSANE to pledge ANYTHING to a piece of cloth. When I took my oath as a soldier it was to the Constitution of the United States. I will reiterate that oath anytime anywhere. I DO NOT pledge alliegence to ANY cloth. We always get hit with "Soldiers died for that flag" as the rallying the cry. They did NOT. They died for their buddies, they died for their friends and family at home, they died to stop people whose ultimate goal it was to take away from us our way of life, at least to some extent. I was part of Operation Just Cause. I actually engaged in combat while in Panama. I never ONCE thought about the flag. Never occurred to me. What was foremost in my mind was getting through it with myself and all my friends with me in tact, whole and safe. Our flag has been involved in many heroic things, including the liberation of Consentration Camps and the entirity of Europe from a mad man. But it also flew over Japanese interment camps, it was carried by men on horseback as they forced a people to march in the winter from South Carolina to Oklahoma, starving and being killed when they could no longer keep up, and over american schools that were unequal because too many of us believed that the students in different schools were not worthy of equality. If you weigh all the good and bad things that our flag has been witness too, I think it comes out a wash.

I like that in Places like the UK flags are used to cheer national football (soccer for the unwashed) teams, and it they hit the ground or get beer on them you just put them in the washing machine. For them the flag symbolizes their nation but is not idolized.
 
TheDanold said:
I said it and I can't remember anyone caring enough to bother making it an issue. Honestly it was just robotic repetition of something.

With Venezuela, you have the actual curriculum centered around their "chants". There's meat behind the words, you know?
If anything there is less religion in America than ever before, Venezuela is doing nothing but making more and more state control.
I actually expected you to come on this thread and berate BAC over his support for Chavez, I'm surprised.
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LESS RELIGION? Eighty-five percent of American identify as Christian. That doesn't spell less religion to me. You must mean that there are less state sanctioned Religious functions. Well since your relationship with god is a personal thing unless you come together to fellowship in church, that is the way it should stay. Less Religion? LMAO.
 
How funny is this thread..........

not very, mocking the foundation of our way of life! What pray tell is so bad about giving alligance to ones countries flag and way of life...never mind y'all give alligance to Mary Jane...up on cloud nine all the time!:rolleyes:
 
Socrtease said:
When I was growing up in the 70's we said it everyday in Elementary School. I never said it, and I never stood for it. It is INSANE to pledge ANYTHING to a piece of cloth. When I took my oath as a soldier it was to the Constitution of the United States. I will reiterate that oath anytime anywhere. I DO NOT pledge alliegence to ANY cloth. We always get hit with "Soldiers died for that flag" as the rallying the cry. They did NOT. They died for their buddies, they died for their friends and family at home, they died to stop people whose ultimate goal it was to take away from us our way of life, at least to some extent. I was part of Operation Just Cause. I actually engaged in combat while in Panama. I never ONCE thought about the flag. Never occurred to me. What was foremost in my mind was getting through it with myself and all my friends with me in tact, whole and safe. Our flag has been involved in many heroic things, including the liberation of Consentration Camps and the entirity of Europe from a mad man. But it also flew over Japanese interment camps, it was carried by men on horseback as they forced a people to march in the winter from South Carolina to Oklahoma, starving and being killed when they could no longer keep up, and over american schools that were unequal because too many of us believed that the students in different schools were not worthy of equality. If you weigh all the good and bad things that our flag has been witness too, I think it comes out a wash.

I like that in Places like the UK flags are used to cheer national football (soccer for the unwashed) teams, and it they hit the ground or get beer on them you just put them in the washing machine. For them the flag symbolizes their nation but is not idolized.
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Nicely said. I wonder why it isn't idolized in other countries the way it is here?
 
Socrtease said:
LESS RELIGION? Eighty-five percent of American identify as Christian. That doesn't spell less religion to me. You must mean that there are less state sanctioned Religious functions. Well since your relationship with god is a personal thing unless you come together to fellowship in church, that is the way it should stay. Less Religion? LMAO.
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You're trying to make a case based on perception. But the number of atheists in America has been growing nonstop for years:
http://www.mnatheists.org/beyond.html
 
Darla said:
When you're in school, teachers are your peers?

Another moronic statement from the moron Dano.
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I remember back when I was in elementary school, like 5th grade, some kid was Jehovahs Witness or some crap religion and refused to say it on the grounds it was against his religion...he was forced to recite it.

Freedom in this country is an illusion. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fucking dummy. I've lived in like 6 different countries and most of them are freer than tha USA.
 
TheDanold said:
You're trying to make a case based on perception. But the number of atheists in America has been growing nonstop for years:
http://www.mnatheists.org/beyond.html
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So what? The number of Athiest still does not change the fact that over 2/3 of this country identify as christians. You're just mad cause we no longer have to sit and not only listen to people recite a poem to the flag but we don't have sit there while the school intecom system is used to recite a prayer. That doesn't mean religion is on the decline it just means that state endorced religious practices are no longer the norm.
 
According to a 2002 survey by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, the U.S. was the only developed nation in the survey where a majority of citizens reported that religion plays a "very important" role in their lives.

According to the CIA World Factbook, the U.S. is 78% Christian and 10% no religion, while other religions comprise 12% of the U.S. population. In descending order, the largest identified religious groups are Protestant (52%); Roman Catholic (24%); Mormon (2%); Buddhist (2%); Jewish (1%); and Muslim (1%)

A 2006 online Harris Poll of 2,010 U.S. adults (18 and older) found that 58% of those surveyed were "absolutely certain" that God exists while 6% were "absolutely certain" that God does not exist.[6] The other 36% to 38% reported that they were only "somewhat certain" or "unsure" regarding the existence of God (21% reported they were "somewhat certain that there is a God," 11% that they were "not sure whether or not there is a God," and 6% that they were "somewhat certain that there is no God"). The poll showed that an "absolute certain" belief in God increased with age: while only 43%-45% of those aged 18-29 were "absolutely certain" that God exists, 54% of those aged 30-39 were "absolutely certain" that God exists, and 63%-65% of those aged 40 and older were "absolutely certain" that God exists.

A 2006 CBS News Poll of 899 U.S. adults found that 82% of those surveyed believed in God, while 9% believed in "some other universal spirit or higher power," 8% believed in neither, and 1% were unsure.

A 2004 Newsweek Poll of 1,009 U.S. adults, conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates, found that 82% of those surveyed believed that Jesus was God or the Son of God.

Yup god is almost dead in the good ole U S of A. Please.
 
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