Libertarians...Quite Possibly the Stupidest People in the World....

Its about time we had some hard, contact sports here. The Gilded Age libertarian sympathizers versus the New Deal Democrats.

:clink:

That would be fine, if it was in person and I could kick that mf SF in the balls, and then pour beer on his face while he was down, which I would do.
 
I don't think anyone thinks you're important.


I do find your deceit incredible and yeah it does burn me, the way you try and pretend that you are just discovering new things, when I have seen you make similar statements before.
You try and pawn yourself off as this naive lefty who gets shocked at things that other lefties care about and how much you agree with them.
Yet in reality you are the ultimate power whore who will sign onto to any piece of bullshit, no matter how well you know it not to be true, to hype it.


You're the biggest fucking fake on here. Desh, Darla, BAC, Lorax, Dungheap, Thorn, uscitizen and so on I disagree with, but you'll notice I never call any of them deceitful - because it's only you that is and to the core.


Seriously Dano, you think about me way too much. I barely notice your there, except a few minutes a day, when I run across one of your threads.
 
Would it work if I said, "I'm sorry he called you a slutty bimbo."? I'll do it if it will work. I'll even say, "I'm sorry she called you a drunken chimpanzee." to him...

Two of my favorites ignoring each other. It's unheard of!

No I know that you're sorry, and you're too much of a gentleman to ever call a woman that in the first place.

it will have to come from SF sorry!
 
I don't remember that. I rarely ever cuss people out, or get potty mouthed. Did I cuss you out on that thread? I doubt it, but If so, sorry!

If you did I don't remember it. I don't take it personally at all. It's easy to incite yourself into anger against the perceived failings of an Internet personality. Don't take it personally if I throw a few your way sometime. Certain issues are sensitive to certain people.

I curse less often on here than I actually do in life.
 
Although I don't agree withthe title that libertarians are stupid people, there does indeed seem much to be questioned about libertarian thought.

If there is any libertarian, or semi-libertarian here who can step away from the noise and perhaps engage in a bit of civil thought, I offer a hand in peace so that we could engage in that discussion.

Let's start from here ...

"Friedman returned home to a firestorm of protest, aggravated by his celebrity as a Newsweek columnist and ongoing revelations about Washington's and corporate America's involvement in the overthrow of Allende. Not only had Nixon, the CIA, and ITT, along with other companies, plotted to destabilize Allende's "democratic road to socialism," but now a renowned University of Chicago economist, whose promotion of the wonders of the free market was heavily subsidized by corporations such as Bechtel, Pepsico, Getty, Pfizer, General Motors, W.R. Grace, and Firestone, was advising the dictator who overthrew him on how to complete the counterrevolution * at the cost of skyrocketing unemployment among Chile's poor.

The New York Times identified Friedman as the "guiding light of the junta's economic policy," while columnist Anthony Lewis asked: if "pure Chicago economic theory can be carried out in Chile only at the price of repression, should its authors feel some responsibility?"

Friedman defended his relationship with Pinochet by saying that if Allende had been allowed to remain in office Chileans would have suffered "the elimination of thousands and perhaps mass starvation . . . torture and unjust imprisonment." But the elimination of thousands, mass hunger, torture and unjust imprisonment were what was taking place in Chile exactly at the moment the Chicago economist was defending his protégé.

Allende's downfall came because he refused to betray Chile's long democratic tradition and invoke martial law, yet Friedman nevertheless insisted that the military junta offered "more room for individual initiative and for a private sphere of life" and thus a greater "chance of a return to a democratic society." It was pure boilerplate, but it did give Friedman a chance to rehearse his understanding of the relationship between capitalism and freedom.

These are excerpts from my previously posted link to this article .. and these ARE the words of Friedman .. search for yourself, as I already have.

Given that these are indeed the words of friedman, can we now stop pretending that Friedman did not support Pinochet and his government? Friedman DEFENDED his relationship with Pinochet and claimed that Allende would have caused torture, death, and suffering at the same time Pinochet was causing torture, death, and suffering.

Does this not all seem eerily familar to you?

In many ways libertarian thought does not appear to be well-thought out. For instance, libertarians claim to be antiwar .. but they support the central element and guiding force of war and intervention .. corporate profit. Friedman spoke for Bechtel, Firestone, Getty and all the other plutocrats who backed him .. who in fact WERE the "free market"

There is a serious disconnect betweem praising the holiness of the "free market" while talking about "liberty", "freedom", and most specifically, "anti-corporatism." That was not only true in Chile then, it's true in America today. One word .. Iraq

Libertarians defend the failure that was Friedman, pretend he had no responsibility for his relationship with evil, and claim to be antiwar but support the very reason for war and intervention.

If there be a libertarian who can discuss this with civility .. I'd like to hear it.
Ok so this basically ends the whole idea that Friedman was ignorant to the repression going on in Chile. So here is my belief as a libertarian. A REAL libertarian is as offended by repression of human rights as he or she is by centralised control of the means of production, the nationalisation of business or the elimination of private property. When Friedman KNEW what was going on he should have denounced Pinochet, he should have said that EVERTHING Pinochet did was offensive to his economic beliefs because unlike so many, Friedman's economic beliefs had a civil liberties component.
 
If you did I don't remember it. I don't take it personally at all. It's easy to incite yourself into anger against the perceived failings of an Internet personality. Don't take it personally if I throw a few your way sometime. Certain issues are sensitive to certain people.

I curse less often on here than I actually do in life.


No worries! Your ideology may suck, but I don't get wrapped up in internet personalities. :cool:
 
Ok so this basically ends the whole idea that Friedman was ignorant to the repression going on in Chile. So here is my belief as a libertarian. A REAL libertarian is as offended by repression of human rights as he or she is by centralised control of the means of production, the nationalisation of business or the elimination of private property. When Friedman KNEW what was going on he should have denounced Pinochet, he should have said that EVERTHING Pinochet did was offensive to his economic beliefs because unlike so many, Friedman's economic beliefs had a civil liberties component.


But he didn't, which leads one to believe that he was so enamored with the possibility of seeing his reforms put into place that he disregarded the known brutality of Pinochet in order to see his ideal economy put into action. In short, so-called economic freedom trumps all others.
 
I view my ideology as necessary as a counterbalancing force to yours. I hesitate to launch into a lengthy discussion so far into a thread on a different topic, but I view the political landscape as a permanent game of tug-of-war between our competing ideologies, as well as conservatism and populism. The dominance of an extreme view of any ideology is dangerous for a country over a long period of time.

I do not think that America would be any better off if we were a government-free, anarcho-capitalist paradise. I advocate and defend anarcho-capitalism because people like you are working in the same capacity for socialism.

I hope that you don't genuinely believe that America would be better off under progressively more restrictive policies in economics and civil liberties; but even if you do, there are anarcho-capitalists like myself, and Norquistesque fiscal conservatives to stop you from implementing it.

At the risk of sounding somewhat cliche, we all serve necessary functions in maintaining some degree of status quo in political developments. I do not hate you for being liberal or espousing liberal policies. It is an admirable, even essential function for a certain element of society to work for more state intervention. And it is an equally admirable and possibly even more essential function for certain elements of society to work to oppose such intervention.

We all have our role to play, each as essential as the others.
 
Friedman was one of the heads of the gates commision that ended the draft in the US.

LIBERALS, antiwar liberals fight against this? Is this supposed to be a serious argument?

His ideas on inflation and the money supply have changed how central banks operate the world over and ended STAGFLATION.

I don't remember anyone here saying that Friedman didn't have an influence on monetary policy .. some of it good, some of it disastrous .. ask Margaret Thatcher. He later backed away from some of his dogmatic stance on money supply himself.

Most of his ideas of directly targeting the money supply were tried and rejected as a failure.

No major central bank directly targets money supply in setting monetary policy , not in the UK, not in the US, not anywhere .. ask Alan Greenspan, a great admirer of Friedman.

He was an adviser to Barry Goldwater, a completely unsuccessful in every way presidential candidate .. who is now being trumpted by another very unsuccessful presidential candidate today.

The most successful thing he did was, while working for the government, he designed the payroll tax .. yeah, the withholding tax .. you know, the one that allows the government into your paycheck. .. That be him.

That kinda makes him the best friend big government could have .. and it worked so well they adopted it in the UK.

His ideas were central to the changes in India and China which brought BILLIONS out of poverty.

That's quite a stretch, but hey, you couldn't have picked two better shining examples of democracy than China and India.

He one a Nobel Prize in economics

Al Gore's got one to.

This is what Liberals fight against. Pretty pathetic.

What is it exactly that liberals fight against .. truth?
 
Ok so this basically ends the whole idea that Friedman was ignorant to the repression going on in Chile. So here is my belief as a libertarian. A REAL libertarian is as offended by repression of human rights as he or she is by centralised control of the means of production, the nationalisation of business or the elimination of private property. When Friedman KNEW what was going on he should have denounced Pinochet, he should have said that EVERTHING Pinochet did was offensive to his economic beliefs because unlike so many, Friedman's economic beliefs had a civil liberties component.

Thank you .. didn't know you were libertarian, but thanks.

But is it not true that the glorification of the free market works better in theory than it does in actual practice? The demonstrations of almost any form of it always ends in failure.

Isn't this why there is no truly free market system in practice today?
 
Thank you .. didn't know you were libertarian, but thanks.

But is it not true that the glorification of the free market works better in theory than it does in actual practice? The demonstrations of almost any form of it always ends in failure.

Isn't this why there is no truly free market system in practice today?

In a vaccuum, a free market would be a perfect system.

Such a vaccuum does not exist, but in real world situations the free market is still accepted by economists as the most efficient way to deliver goods and services.
 
In a vaccuum, a free market would be a perfect system.

Such a vaccuum does not exist, but in real world situations the free market is still accepted by economists as the most efficient way to deliver goods and services, except when it isn't.


Fixed. I only mean to say that there are many types of market failures where the free market system breaks down and does not function efficiently. That is all.
 
Ok so this basically ends the whole idea that Friedman was ignorant to the repression going on in Chile.

So here is my belief as a libertarian. A REAL libertarian is as offended by repression of human rights as he or she is by centralised control of the means of production, the nationalisation of business or the elimination of private property.

When Friedman KNEW what was going on he should have denounced Pinochet, he should have said that EVERTHING Pinochet did was offensive to his economic beliefs because unlike so many, Friedman's economic beliefs had a civil liberties component.


Cheers!
 
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