List ONE thing that America needs done and make a case for why it needs doing

AProudLefty said:
Conservatism means tradition, status quo and hierarchy. Going further right and it includes using religion as a part of control. For example, who is it that wants religion in schools and government? Who is it that wants America to be "restored" to a Christian nation? Who is it that does not want LGBT equality and marriage? And so on and on.

Fun fact: Hitler invoked religion as a part of the control.
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What did John Adams mean when he wrote: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people."?
 
Drummie123 said:
What did John Adams mean when he wrote: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people."?
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Many Founding Fathers were deists and freemasons. John Adams was a universalist Unitarian.

The Founding Fathers recognize the importance of religion and how the denominations should be separated from influence on the government, which is the reason for the First Amendment.
 
AProudLefty said:
Many Founding Fathers were deists and freemasons. John Adams was a universalist Unitarian.

The Founding Fathers recognize the importance of religion and how the denominations should be separated from influence on the government, which is the reason for the First Amendment.
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Why was religion important to the Founders?

And rather than doing a summation of ALL the benefits of religion, let's narrow the focus.

(And this is an open question for anyone who wants to opine...)

Why did Adams say that the Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people?
 
T. A. Gardner said:
A common set of shared values and societal norms. Any nation that lacks those won't remain a nation for long.
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I agree.

In my way of looking at this question, it seems to me that the Constitution was only able to act as the last barrier for human passions and wronginess.

And that the FIRST and most important fence to corral our lesser motives and prevent their running loose and causing chaos (as they do too much of today), is the self imposed restrictions exercised by the individual to conform to religious laws.

If the Bible says thou shalt not steal, and as a Christian, I refrain from theft even though I am tempted to steal, it is one less case for the law of our government to deal with.

Biblical laws stopped me from breaking man's laws.

But, if men are not moral or religious, then our Constitution is only half as effective in regulating our societal behaviors. The Constitution would have a much more difficult time in keeping order for the benefit of all.
 
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Drummie123 said:
Why was religion important to the Founders?

And rather than doing a summation of ALL the benefits of religion, let's narrow the focus.

(And this is an open question for anyone who wants to opine...)

Why did Adams say that the Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people?
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At that time, Christianity, particularly Baptists, was a dominant religion and was very influential and important part to Americans.

The "moral" part is very obvious. But what are the "religious" people?
 
AProudLefty said:
At that time, Christianity, particularly Baptists, was a dominant religion and was very influential and important part to Americans.

The "moral" part is very obvious. But what are the "religious" people?
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John Adams, second president of the United States, wrote that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition 'that morality can be maintained without religion.'


Joe Lieberman
 
Drummie123 said:
John Adams, second president of the United States, wrote that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition 'that morality can be maintained without religion.'


Joe Lieberman
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I looked that one up.

This is the exact quote:

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/primary-sources/washingtons-farewell-address

Funny how the addition of words can confuse the meaning of quotes.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
It's puzzling why some ppl come to a discussion forum, post a thread purporting to want to discuss things, then refuse to discuss them because all they really want is an echo chamber.

You are a most excellent Trumpanzee!
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In real life, what used to happen de rigueur, is that the person with the better argument would win the point with those present and that those present would all generally have the same values as proud Americans (unlike today thanks to the 'intraweb' influence over the years) and the person with the lesser argument would accept the outcome and then re-think or re-group and try again or they would be shunted to the periphery of the group they were in. And from there they might become permanently on the margins of accepted thought or they would become known for being at the forefront of ideas and the public's accepted beliefs.


My comment, "Claim your crumbs while ye may," was as a response to your attempt to cast yourself as being farsighted, if not gifted in being able to predict what I subsequently did.

My point is that, while you may be correct, what difference does it make?


;)
 
AProudLefty said:
I looked that one up.

This is the exact quote:

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/primary-sources/washingtons-farewell-address

Funny how the addition of words can confuse the meaning of quotes.
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They seemed to view the use of lots of flowery words and phrases the way we use videos.

To make things more 'exciting' I guess.
 
Drummie123 said:
They seemed to view the use of lots of flowery words and phrases the way we use videos.

To make things more 'exciting' I guess.
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Yeah. From what I read in the quote, he isn't warning us. He's telling us to be carful. Notice that Joe omitted the word, "caution"?
 
AProudLefty said:
At that time, Christianity, particularly Baptists, was a dominant religion and was very influential and important part to Americans.

The "moral" part is very obvious. But what are the "religious" people?
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"But what are the "religious" people?"

Those are the people who use peer pressure to make the rest of the people abide by a higher code of conduct than the legal laws which might exist.

Peer pressure to uphold Biblical laws made our society, generally, more moral.

Discouraging Christianity lessened the importance to be in sync with Christian values and those who were devoutly Christian. And with that diminished influence of Christianity on society, (IMO) came a relaxation of ALL our moral values and the Dems and the Left are now pushing to make us more moral by popularizing silly ideas like BLM, for example.
 
AProudLefty said:
Yeah. From what I read in the quote, he isn't warning us. He's telling us to be carful. Notice that Joe omitted the word, "caution"?
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John Adams, second president of the United States, wrote that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition 'that morality can be maintained without religion.'


Joe Lieberman

This is the exact quote:

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
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Joe said "never" do this. Washington, by your cited text, says do it "with caution."

But in those days, it seemed their fashion was to refrain from being as blunt as Joe Lieberman was.

And that the difference is in translating the Washington quote into today's vernacular.

IMO
 
Drummie123 said:
Joe said "never" do this. Washington, by your cited text, says do it "with caution."

But in those days, it seemed their fashion was to refrain from being as blunt as Joe Lieberman was.

And that the difference is in translating the Washington quote into today's vernacular.

IMO
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I doubt it's what George meant. And "interpreting" or "translating" something can be done to confuse and push a narrative. Pastors do that with Bible all the time. I am certain Joe is pretty smart.

Did George Washington actually think that morality can survive without religion?
 
AProudLefty said:
Yeah. From what I read in the quote, he isn't warning us. He's telling us to be carful. Notice that Joe omitted the word, "caution"?
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Please share your thoughts on this part of the quotation which quotes the great man directly prior to the aforementioned quote:


“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion.

Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”


John Adams
 
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