Muslims Save the Day

No. The point is you become dead when you trust people who, for the most part, want to take over your society with radical islam. Your political correctness stops you from perceiving and or acting upon the truth.

Like the Neocons ?

Are we talking about the People or the ideology ?
All americans are not Neos nor do all support them, nor do all Muslims support OBL and his ilk. Do all Christians support all christians and kill abortion docotors and blow up clinics and such ? Do all gun owners kill people with then ? Are all people that live in mobile homes theieing trash ?
Are all Bmw owners pricks ? umm bad example there :)


You are using an overly broad brush there AHZ.
 
Like the Neocons ?

Are we talking about the People or the ideology ?
All americans are not Neos nor do all support them, nor do all Muslims support OBL and his ilk. Do all Christians support all christians and kill abortion docotors and blow up clinics and such ? Do all gun owners kill people with then ? Are all people that live in mobile homes theieing trash ?
Are all Bmw owners pricks ? umm bad example there :)


You are using an overly broad brush there AHZ.

No. It's not a broad brush. The people believe the ideology. violent jihad is a more core aspect of islam than is abortion bombing in christianity. That's just the truth of the matter. It's not an apt analogy. Jihad is a real threat to all non-muslims. It's not "comparable to the modern christian outlook".

Have you seen the articles where muslims are discussing that the plan is to migrate into the western world, outbreed the native population, then use the democratic process to institute sharia law? A true return to the dark ages is being planned, and your pc idiocy blocks your rational thinking.

I advocate stopping all muslim immigration to combat the plan, as outlined above, to conquer the west.
 
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Like the Neocons ?

Are we talking about the People or the ideology ?
All americans are not Neos nor do all support them, nor do all Muslims support OBL and his ilk. Do all Christians support all christians and kill abortion docotors and blow up clinics and such ? Do all gun owners kill people with then ? Are all people that live in mobile homes theieing trash ?
Are all Bmw owners pricks ? umm bad example there :)


You are using an overly broad brush there AHZ.
Well put.

In my little world, there are a lot of people who make the same mistake about Christianity. They look at Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and Fred Phelps and conclude that Christian preachers are either cynical profiteers or clinically insane. They look at the screaming, slobbering, hysterical anti-abortion mob, or the ugly hatred aimed at homosexual people, and conclude that even genuinely devout Christians are sick, twisted and evil. It's not that much of a stretch if you're coming from a non-Christian background to begin with. The worst thing is that once you've made up your mind it's all too easy to find "supporting evidence" almost everywhere.

European history is littered with bizarre characters easily rendered as cartoon villains. Then you can turn to the ugly record of the European powers as colonialists and empire builders to find justification for almost any level of hate and contempt for Christianity.

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of Christians are uncomfortable with the extremist positions of the fundamentalists. The same is true within Islam.
 
Well put.

In my little world, there are a lot of people who make the same mistake about Christianity. They look at Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and Fred Phelps and conclude that Christian preachers are either cynical profiteers or clinically insane. They look at the screaming, slobbering, hysterical anti-abortion mob, or the ugly hatred aimed at homosexual people, and conclude that even genuinely devout Christians are sick, twisted and evil. It's not that much of a stretch if you're coming from a non-Christian background to begin with. The worst thing is that once you've made up your mind it's all too easy to find "supporting evidence" almost everywhere.

European history is littered with bizarre characters easily rendered as cartoon villains. Then you can turn to the ugly record of the European powers as colonialists and empire builders to find justification for almost any level of hate and contempt for Christianity.

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of Christians are uncomfortable with the extremist positions of the fundamentalists. The same is true within Islam.



No. It's not true in islam. Jihad is a more accepted in islam than any abortion bombing is in christianity. You're misrepresenting.

You were headed towards truth with your observation that The MODERN islamic world is similar to european HISTORY.

MOST muslims are not actual bombers, but most will silently watch attacks on the west occur, and will do little to reign in the actively violent who really are expressing true islam as laid out by the prophet. The faith is violent, totalitarian, theocratic, and is designed to actually thwart attempts at any form of secularization. There is no concept of church/state separation in islam.

Though there are periods of western history where church state were effectively one, it is not an EXPLICIT teaching of the christian faith.
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No. It's not true in islam. Jihad is a more accepted in islam than any abortion bombing is in christianity. You're misrepresenting.
No, that's simply not true. Almost all Muslim clerics routinely disavow violence. Our media don't often report it but that's because there's too much profit potential in Muslim-bashing.

You're hung up on that tricky word "Jihad." Many people are, so I don't hold it against you. Most Muslims don't interpret it to mean literal war. Most Muslims interpret it to mean an internal struggle against temptation, and a cultural challenge to maintain their traditions. Much as Christians do.
You were headed towards truth with your observation that The MODERN islamic world is similar to european HISTORY.
Nonsense. I see no particular advancement within Christianity as a whole over the past 1000 years or so. Giordano Bruno wouldn't be burned alive today but that's simply because secular authority would prevent it.

European/American culture has advance despite the Christian influence, not because of it.
MOST muslims are not actual bombers, but most will silently watch attacks on the west occur, and will do little to reign in the actively violent who really are expressing true islam as laid out by the prophet. The faith is violent, totalitarian, theocratic, and is designed to actually thwart attempts at any form of secularization. There is no concept of church/state separation in islam.

Though there are periods of western history where church state were effectively one, it is not an EXPLICIT teaching of the christian faith.
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MOST Christians are not actual murderers, but most will silently watch attacks on helpless Palestinian Arabs by Christians and Jews.

You're talking about a failing of humanity, not Muslims.
 
No, that's simply not true. Almost all Muslim clerics routinely disavow violence. Our media don't often report it but that's because there's too much profit potential in Muslim-bashing.

You're hung up on that tricky word "Jihad." Many people are, so I don't hold it against you. Most Muslims don't interpret it to mean literal war. Most Muslims interpret it to mean an internal struggle against temptation, and a cultural challenge to maintain their traditions. Much as Christians do.

Nonsense. I see no particular advancement within Christianity as a whole over the past 1000 years or so. Giordano Bruno wouldn't be burned alive today but that's simply because secular authority would prevent it.

European/American culture has advance despite the Christian influence, not because of it.
MOST Christians are not actual murderers, but most will silently watch attacks on helpless Palestinian Arabs by Christians and Jews.

You're talking about a failing of humanity, not Muslims.

A significant portion of the christian west is dead set against the israeli colonization project. And that project is about zionism, something I also have a problem with. The reality of zionism doesn't negate the reality of islamic jihadism. They're both real and unfortunate.

The actual truth:

http://www.ontruth.com/islamwtc.html
THE TRUTH IS that a significant constituency of Muslims interpret Islam in a way that absolutely demands the kind of brutal violence we witnessed on September 11th in the name of fidelity to Islam and its Holy Places. We'll call this FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM. Fundamentalist Islam is very similar to the kind of Islam practiced from A.D. 622 to c. 1500. America, known to the Islamic world as a Christian nation, supports Israel 's occupation of the third holiest place in Islam (Jerusalem). America stands in the way of recovering other Islamic lands as well. And America is an obstacle to worldwide Islamic expansion. Therefore American people, military and civilians alike, are the enemy of Islam and may be killed as long as they stand in the way of Islam. This kind of Islam is not a fringe movement as it has often been described. The number of Muslims in this camp may be as many as 300 million.* Fundamentalist Muslims may be found in significant numbers in many Islamic countries. The most notorious leaders of Fundamentalist Islam include Ayatollah Khomeini from Iran (deceased) and Osama bin Laden from Saudi Arabia.

THE TRUTH IS that there is also a constituency of the Islamic world that absolutely rejects Fundamentalist Islam in favor of a kind of Islam influenced more by Western sensibilities about religious toleration. We'll call this LIBERAL ISLAM. A majority of American Muslims and European Muslims fall in this camp. They would never consent to the killing of civilians in order to advance Islam, and they would only rarely consent to violence for the indirect defense of Islamic interests. The size of this constituency is probably significantly smaller than Fundamentalist Islam. The number of Muslims that embrace Liberal Islam is probably less than 100 million worldwide.

THE TRUTH IS that the largest constituency of the Islamic world has a very complicated view of the use of violence to defend and advance Islam that permits warlike activity in some cases but not in others. We'll call this MODERATE ISLAM. Moderate Islam is probably split about the justness of the violent action perpetrated on America by Fundamentalist Islam in New York and Washington. Moderate Islam navigates between early Islam practiced by Mohammed and the Caliphs from A.D. 622 to the late middle ages and Liberal Islam influenced heavily by the ideas of Western modernity. There may be as many as 600 million Muslims in the camp of Moderate Islam.

THEREFORE THE SUMMARY TRUTH IS...

1) A very large number of Fundamentalist Muslims in the world supports the kind of terrorism advanced upon America on September 11th.

2) Liberal Islam on the other hand abhors the attack of September 11th in the name of Islam. Liberal Islam is composed mostly of American and European Muslims.

3) Between the above two extreme positions lies Moderate Islam, which represents the vast majority of Islam. Moderate Muslims are conflicted about the attack on America. Some Moderate Islamic teachings can be interpreted to support the attack and some Moderate Islamic teachings can be interpreted to reject the attack. Moderate Islam often finds itself in the position of tacitly approving the violent conduct of Fundamentalist Islam by failing to stand against it because it is Islam.

4) American expressions of Islam are probably composed of an equal number of Liberal Muslims and Moderate Muslims together with a very small number of Fundamentalist Muslims.

5) If only 5% of Muslims in the world are Fundamentalist Muslims which support the kind of terrorist acts of Sepember 11th, then America has 60 million Muslim enemies in the world.

6) If only 5% of Muslims in America are Fundamentalist Muslims which support the kind of terrorist acts of Sepember 11th, then America has 300 thousand Muslim enemies living within its borders.
 
Obfuscation. Christians in general sat on their fat, complacent butts while the Chinese -- the "godless" communistic Chinese, no less -- invaded Tibet, enslaved the people thereof and murdered most of the clerical caste. Christianity sat on it's hands when Jews were being systematically exterminated in Europe. Christians on the whole turned their eyes away from the genocide in Rwanda, and are doing so again with the genocide in Sudan.

The fact is that human beings in general, not just Muslims, are prone to ignore inconvenient and disturbing facts. Don't single the Muslims out for a failing we all share.
 
Obfuscation. Christians in general sat on their fat, complacent butts while the Chinese -- the "godless" communistic Chinese, no less -- invaded Tibet, enslaved the people thereof and murdered most of the clerical caste. Christianity sat on it's hands when Jews were being systematically exterminated in Europe. Christians on the whole turned their eyes away from the genocide in Rwanda, and are doing so again with the genocide in Sudan.

The fact is that human beings in general, not just Muslims, are prone to ignore inconvenient and disturbing facts. Don't single the Muslims out for a failing we all share.

Ok. We all have had our bad moments.

Do you want to live in a society ruled by sharia law? Yes or no. Can you even answer a simple question?
 
Like the Neocons ?

Are we talking about the People or the ideology ?
All americans are not Neos nor do all support them, nor do all Muslims support OBL and his ilk. Do all Christians support all christians and kill abortion docotors and blow up clinics and such ? Do all gun owners kill people with then ? Are all people that live in mobile homes theieing trash ?
Are all Bmw owners pricks ? umm bad example there :)


You are using an overly broad brush there AHZ.

Just because you can't use the word "all" in a context doesn't mean the numbers aren't relevant. Generalizations are meaningful, and should be used as a factor to determine policy, not dismissed as "racism". Your critical thinking skills are eroded by your political correctness.
 
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No. It's not true in islam. Jihad is a more accepted in islam than any abortion bombing is in christianity. You're misrepresenting.


You were headed towards truth with your observation that The MODERN islamic world is similar to european HISTORY.

MOST muslims are not actual bombers, but most will silently watch attacks on the west occur, and will do little to reign in the actively violent who really are expressing true islam as laid out by the prophet. The faith is violent, totalitarian, theocratic, and is designed to actually thwart attempts at any form of secularization. There is no concept of church/state separation in islam.

Though there are periods of western history where church state were effectively one, it is not an EXPLICIT teaching of the christian faith.
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I see very little outrage by Christians about those Islamic peoples killed by our war, which was based on lies. Just another crusade to the middle east for power and riches. That is really all Bush's war is.
 
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