My aviation tribute thread

Swedish Gripen E fighter
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Sweden says it built a Russian fighter jet killer — and stealth is totally irrelevant

The commander of Sweden's air force, Mats Helgesson, recently made the bold statement that his country's Saab Gripen E fighter could beat Russia's formidable fleet of Sukhoi jets with none of the expensive stealth technology the US relies on.

"Gripen, especially the E-model, is designed to kill Sukhois. There we have a black belt," Helgesson told Yle at a presentation in Finland, where Sweden is trying to export the jets.

Russia's Sukhoi fighters have achieved a kind of legendary status for their ability to out-maneuver US fighter jets in dogfights and pull off dangerous and aggressive stunts in the air, but Gripen may have cracked the code.

The Gripen can't carry the most weapons and has no real stealth. And it isn't the longest-range, the fastest, or even the cheapest jet. But it has a singular focus that makes it a nightmare for Russia's fighter jets.

Saab took a different, and cheaper, approach to combating Russia's fighters and missiles by focusing on electronic attack, which gives them an advantage over stealth because they can evolve the software without a ground-up rebuild, according to Bronk.

https://www.businessinsider.com/swe...r-jet-killer-and-stealth-is-irrelevant-2019-2
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countryboy said:
I'm glad you revived this thread, it reminded me of this documentary someone posted on another forum. I found it to be most excellent.

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Love the RAF Spitfire, which I argue may be the single piece of technology most responsible for saving western liberal democracy from the forces of German fascism.
 
Cypress said:
Love the RAF Spitfire, which I argue may be the single piece of technology most responsible for saving western liberal democracy from the forces of German fascism.
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I agree, and it's always been a favorite aircraft of mine. This documentary only served to strengthen that. Very well done history of the plane, along with rare, and fascinating footage.

I had a history teacher in high school who would constantly show old WW II aviation reels. Great teacher.
 
countryboy said:
I agree, and it's always been a favorite aircraft of mine. This documentary only served to strengthen that. Very well done history of the plane, along with rare, and fascinating footage.

I had a history teacher in high school who would constantly show old WW II aviation reels. Great teacher.
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Thanks for the Spitfire video, and I never fail to appreciate that there is a genuine community of people out there who love aircraft and aviation history. I think for me, it all started when my Papa took me to see the Blue Angels!
 
Cypress said:
Thanks for the Spitfire video, and I never fail to appreciate that there is a genuine community of people out there who love aircraft and aviation history. I think for me, it all started when my Papa took me to see the Blue Angels!
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Nice. Growing up in San Diego, we used to see the Angels practice occasionally out of Miramar, as well as F-14 Top Gun planes. The funny thing is, a lot of airplane viewing was done while unloading trash at the dump that was near there, lol. Also, living within bicycle riding distance of Balboa Park, and the San Diego Aerospace Museum was a big influence on my love of aviation. Tragically in 1978 that museum burned to the ground. A lot of priceless aircraft were lost in that fire. An old Blue Angel jet among them. Along with an exact working replica of Lindbergh's Spirit of Saint Louis. I believe there was even a Sopwith Camel in there. http://sandiegoairandspace.org/exhibits/online-exhibit-page/the-1978-fire

We have a local treasure in the MAPS Air Museum here locally. https://mapsairmuseum.org/

Ah, here it is. The Sopwith was a replica, but still. Man, this brings back fond memories. It's just like yesterday. :( And there's the Blue Angel's plane in the background.

http://sandiegoairandspace.org/exhibits/online-exhibit-page/what-was-lost

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Howard the Duck said:
As a defensive asset, stealth isn't necessarily a key. You definitely favor lethality when it comes to homeland defense.
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I was surprised the article I posted make the claim that the Russian Sukhoi jets are superior in aerodynamic performance and dog fighting capability to U.S. jets, which rely on stealth technology to give us an advantage - - and that if the Russian air force ever overcomes our stealth advantage, our F-35s and F-22s will be sitting ducks for their fleet of Sukhoi fighters.
 
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countryboy said:
Nice. Growing up in San Diego, we used to see the Angels practice occasionally out of Miramar, as well as F-14 Top Gun planes. The funny thing is, a lot of airplane viewing was done while unloading trash at the dump that was near there, lol. Also, living within bicycle riding distance of Balboa Park, and the San Diego Aerospace Museum was a big influence on my love of aviation. Tragically in 1978 that museum burned to the ground. A lot of priceless aircraft were lost in that fire. An old Blue Angel jet among them. Along with an exact working replica of Lindbergh's Spirit of Saint Louis. I believe there was even a Sopwith Camel in there. http://sandiegoairandspace.org/exhibits/online-exhibit-page/the-1978-fire

We have a local treasure in the MAPS Air Museum here locally. https://mapsairmuseum.org/

Ah, here it is. The Sopwith was a replica, but still. Man, this brings back fond memories. It's just like yesterday. :( And there's the Blue Angel's plane in the background.

http://sandiegoairandspace.org/exhibits/online-exhibit-page/what-was-lost

image011.png
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Love the Sopwith Camel and the great fighter planes of World War One. Works of art.

Just fabric stretched over a light frame work of wood, which men rode into the air. As tragic as Ww1 was, it must have advanced aviation technology by more than half a century that it otherwise would have, over the four short years of that conflict.
 
Cypress said:
I was surprised the article I posted make the claim that the Russian Sukhoi jets are superior in aerodynamic performance and dog fighting capability to U.S. jets, which rely on stealth technology to give us an advantage - - and that if the Russian air force ever overcomes our stealth advantage, our F-35s and F-22s will be sitting ducks for their fleet of Sukhoi fighters.
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We still primarily use F-16s and F/A-18s. In the Guard, we still fly a number of F-15s. Along with the B-52s still in the AF arsenal, and there is obviously a lack of stealth out there. But, we do have those B-2s, F-22s, and F-35s for the modern/future warfare.
 
Howard the Duck said:
We still primarily use F-16s and F/A-18s. In the Guard, we still fly a number of F-15s. Along with the B-52s still in the AF arsenal, and there is obviously a lack of stealth out there. But, we do have those B-2s, F-22s, and F-35s for the modern/future warfare.
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F-15 goes back to the early 1970s, though is has gone through many interations and upgrades. F-15E probably is on a par with the best Sukhoi fighters out there, and at that point we have to make sure our pilots have superior training and tactics.

I am always a little dubious of claims that Russian Migs and Sukhoi are superior to, and can outperform our fleet of fighters.

It always strikes me as vastly overrated, unsubstantiated, and alarmist claims being circulated by defense contractors keen to get the Pentagon and the American taxpayer to pony up for more research and contract with them for more advanced systems.
 
Grumpy said:
Next to the P-51 this was one of the most deadly fighters in WWII.


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Love the P-38 Lightening.

I think the historical record will show that the Messerschmitt Bf 109, the RAF Spitfire, the RAF Hurricane, maybe even the Japanese Zero had more air-to-air kills over the course of the water than did the P-38. Nonetheless, I have always admired the beauty and ingenuity of the Lightening's design and aesthetics.
 
Cypress said:
F-15 goes back to the early 1970s, though is has gone through many interations and upgrades. F-15E probably is on a par with the best Sukhoi fighters out there, and at that point we have to make sure our pilots have superior training and tactics.

I am always a little dubious of claims that Russian Migs and Sukhoi are superior to, and can outperform our fleet of fighters.

It always strikes me as vastly overrated, unsubstantiated, and alarmist claims being circulated by defense contractors keen to get the Pentagon and the American taxpayer to pony up for more research and contract with them for more advanced systems.
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Even if the Russians manage to design a platform that is highly maneuverable and fast, that doesn't mean it can defeat a US fighter. Our overall system capabilities will give us the edge, as will the single-most important factor in design, which is radar cross-section.
 
This beauty is the Junkers W-33 on display at the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum.
This aircraft was used by the intrepid bush pilots flying into remote mining camps in the Yukon and northern Quebec in the 1930s. Widely considered to be the best Bush plane by the Canadians of the era because of its range, durability, and water-landing capabilities.
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Cypress said:
Love the P-38 Lightening.

I think the historical record will show that the Messerschmitt Bf 109, the RAF Spitfire, the RAF Hurricane, maybe even the Japanese Zero had more air-to-air kills over the course of the water than did the P-38. Nonetheless, I have always admired the beauty and ingenuity of the Lightening's design and aesthetics.
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The P-38 dominated in the Pacific. It's long range made it ideal for the distances between land. In Europe it's nose installed guns were so deadly that German pilots were told not to go head to head against it. It's major drawback was it's service ceiling.
 
Grumpy said:
The P-38 dominated in the Pacific. It's long range made it ideal for the distances between land. In Europe it's nose installed guns were so deadly that German pilots were told not to go head to head against it. It's major drawback was it's service ceiling.
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No question the Lightening was a great fighter.

However, I believe the historical record would show that the US Navy F-6F Hellcat had the most air-to-air kills of any American fighter plane in the Pacific Theater. That may be, in part, due to the fact that they were so numerous and were the preferred carrier-based fighter plane of the US Navy in the last three years of the war.
 
Cypress said:
No question the Lightening was a great fighter.

However, I believe the historical record would show that the US Navy F-6F Hellcat had the most air-to-air kills of any American fighter plane in the Pacific Theater. That may be, in part, due to the fact that they were so numerous and were the preferred carrier-based fighter plane of the US Navy in the last three years of the war.
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You are correct in that the A-6F had more 5,223 enemy aircraft kills than any other allied aircraft in the pacific.
 
Cypress said:
Love the Sopwith Camel and the great fighter planes of World War One. Works of art.

Just fabric stretched over a light frame work of wood, which men rode into the air. As tragic as Ww1 was, it must have advanced aviation technology by more than half a century that it otherwise would have, over the four short years of that conflict.
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That's Sopwith Triplane,proceded the Sopwith Camel
 
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