My struggle to believe

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The belief of what happens after death vary within Christianity. Catholicism bases their beliefs on scripture from the New Testament and Appocrypha, the Protestants from other scripture that they interpreted literally. It is hard to believe the oncept when Christianity can't even settle on what is true. I also believe it is a oping mechanism. Humans don't want to die. We don't like the thought of never seeing our loved ones again, thus humans created the concept of heaven and to control the masses, hell to frighten them into pay, pray, obey!

Well, Catholics have a long, long history of tradition behind them, and when protestants began they were basically trying to start anew. Of course, divergent interpretations are inevitable as people begin to flesh out something vague, and it has too often been the case that when a new ideology springs up and washes away all tradition in order to get the "true" interpretation, they merely build up a new web of traditions that are just as unjustified as the old ones, in different ways.

 

[Phantasmal]

Well, Catholics have a long, long history of tradition behind them, and when protestants began they were basically trying to start anew. Of course, divergent interpretations are inevitable as people begin to flesh out something vague, and it has too often been the case that when a new ideology springs up and washes away all tradition in order to get the "true" interpretation, they merely build up a new web of traditions that are just as unjustified as the old ones, in different ways.

Absolutely, it is how Christianity came about! Taking the religions of Rome, the Greeks, the far East, and combining it with Judahism.

 

[Minister of Truth]

The belief of what happens after death vary within Christianity. Catholicism bases their beliefs on scripture from the New Testament and Appocrypha, the Protestants from other scripture that they interpreted literally. It is hard to believe the oncept when Christianity can't even settle on what is true. I also believe it is a oping mechanism. Humans don't want to die. We don't like the thought of never seeing our loved ones again, thus humans created the concept of heaven and to control the masses, hell to frighten them into pay, pray, obey!

It is not the fault of Catholics that the newcomers form their own opinions. This why the Church did everything to combat heresy fro 1500 years, to avoid such stupidity.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Absolutely, it is how Christianity came about! Taking the religions of Rome, the Greeks, the far East, and combining it with Judahism.

lol....did you post this so you could demonstrate how little you know about Christianity......let me guess, you believe that crap about Christianity copying Mithraism, right?......did you know that the "Mithraism" that the AtheistRUs websites refers to dates from 1000AD?.......

 

[Phantasmal]

lol....did you post this so you could demonstrate how little you know about Christianity......let me guess, you believe that crap about Christianity copying Mithraism, right?......did you know that the "Mithraism" that the AtheistRUs websites refers to dates from 1000AD?.......

There are several ideas of how Christianity came about, but it definitely was a rebellion against Judahism. I think it is more closely linked to the Eygptian myth of Osiris. There were a lot of Godmen myths from the Bronze age. Paul definitely was more Gnotic.
I have read quite a bit on Christianity, plus I was a Catholic for 40 years. Joseph Campbell was the one who opened my eyes to all the similarities of religious mythology. I am also a big fan of Karen Armstrong and Elaine Pagel. Crosson is also brilliant.

I continue to read and educate myself.

 

[zappasguitar]

There is no God. When you die you will cease to exist for all eternity. If you have a human conscience you will treat people as well as you can anyway. If you don't, you will not.

Now Darla, I don't want to have to point out that matter and energy are interchangeable and can neither be created or destroyed.

We all have an electrical charge inside us, and SOMETHING happens to that "spark" when we die.

Do we simply fade into nothingness? Or does that "spark" live on and could it be possible that we exist as disembodied energy after death?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I think it is more closely linked to the Eygptian myth of Osiris.

I suggest you read up a bit on Osiris.....

brief summary of the myth of Osiris......a king, husband of Isis.....his jealous brother Set murdered him and cut him into 26 pieces, then scattered him across the country side......Isis tracked down the pieces, stitched them together and used magic to "resurrect" him so he could knock her up.....he then went back to being dead and rules the Underworld.......Isis gave birth, claimed by AtheistsRUs to be a "virgin birth" somehow overlooking the fact her husband was involved and that she already had other children....

so, instead of being a deity who died to save his creation and was resurrected, he was a mortal who died because his brother was jealous and became a dead deity.....

sure sounds like a parallel to the gospels to me......

 

[Phantasmal]

Now Darla, I don't want to have to point out that matter and energy are interchangeable and can neither be created or destroyed.

We all have an electrical charge inside us, and SOMETHING happens to that "spark" when we die.

Do we simply fade into nothingness? Or does that "spark" live on and could it be possible that we exist as disembodied energy after death?

Star dust, I am going to be star dust!

 

[christiefan915]

The belief of what happens after death vary within Christianity. Catholicism bases their beliefs on scripture from the New Testament and Appocrypha, the Protestants from other scripture that they interpreted literally. It is hard to believe the oncept when Christianity can't even settle on what is true. I also believe it is a oping mechanism. Humans don't want to die. We don't like the thought of never seeing our loved ones again, thus humans created the concept of heaven and to control the masses, hell to frighten them into pay, pray, obey!

Heck with the people. I want to see my kitties again!


j/k

 

[Rationalist]

Unfortunately, I cannot share any of this with members of my family, because they will believe that I'm on my way to hell for even daring to question a 6,000 year old universe and talking snakes. I'd rather them remain blissfully ignorant than worry about my soul.

There are several ideas of how Christianity came about, but it definitely was a rebellion against Judahism. I think it is more closely linked to the Eygptian myth of Osiris. There were a lot of Godmen myths from the Bronze age. Paul definitely was more Gnotic.
I have read quite a bit on Christianity, plus I was a Catholic for 40 years. Joseph Campbell was the one who opened my eyes to all the similarities of religious mythology. I am also a big fan of Karen Armstrong and Elaine Pagel. Crosson is also brilliant.

I continue to read and educate myself.

What do you think about Islam, Rana?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

That's a false dichotomy Brent. Religion is religion and science is science. They have different rules and functions and there's nothing to say you can't believe in both. It's not like you HAVE to make a choice here. Where is it written that believing in both is mutually exclusive?

I see Genisis as an allegory of God's gift of spirituality to humanity. I see biological evolution as an extremely useful scientific theory that helps model speciation. Why can't I believe in both?

This is the notion I find offensive about most Creationist and their religious literalism. They attempt to create this false dischotomy that one cannot be a Christian, or a person of faith, and believe in accepted scientific principles. That's an utterly falst notion.

I find it very disturbing that we both agree on this.

 

[Lowaicue]

Perhaps consider the following.

Religions have been used to explain things we did not know. Considering we didn't have an alternative explanation it was assumed God was responsible. The big selling point in the New Testament was resurrection. Realizing that may not be enough they raised the stakes by throwing in Hell.

The point is we do not know if our spirit lives on as we are just starting to explore the possibility of different dimensions. It may be natural for spirits to live on after physical death and has nothing to do with Gods just as thunder is not due to God being in a bad mood.

If I recall the Bible states that the Kingdom of God is within each of us. I take that to mean the way we live our life on earth will be the way we live in an afterlife. Karma? Or just common sense like the old saying, "Live by the sword, die by the sword."

Regarding the length of life some folks lived it's been postulated the earth was quite different in the past. For example, it's claimed it was more like a greenhouse. A thicker atmospheric layer blocking direct ultra-violet rays from the sun resulting in less physical breakdown of bodies. Foods were uncontaminated. And, of course, there's the alien genetic mutation theory.

The bottom line for me is, to the best of my ability, live the way I would want to live if I was living forever. After all, who would want to live forever if they didn't like the way they were living?

Just saying.

We have all existed for about 13.5 billion years and are likely to exist for quite a few billion more since we are of the stuff of which the universe is made.

 

[midcan5]

'Ode To the Butterfly Mind'

"The Parliament of Butterflies
Was racked by deep division
Questions of what to teach the young
Demanded their decision.

It had been known and taught and thought
Since butterfly life began
That butterflies in glory rose
From their creators mighty hand

Now some few who this truth mocked
Had attacked faiths very pillars
All butterflies, these scientists claimed,
Came from caterpillars.

This indecent theory spread
Into butterfly education,
Until this caterpillar cult
Threatened creations revelation.

The faithful sought to restore the truth
About the origins of butterflies;
And to build an absolute moral base,
To stop the metamorphic lies.

Believe you descended from some worm
And wormlike you will be!
Reasoned those who'd seen faith's light
And knew there was nothing left to see.

We see no proof, some butterflies said
That we are all come from cocoons--
Unbelievers who would teach this tale
Are all immoral loons.

Some said the metamorphous lie
Was laid by the enemy, they believed,
Set, like candle flames and windshields,
To destroy all who were deceived.

The matter was at last resolved--
Both theories must be taught--how fine!
Now all youth can simply decide the truth,
Each in their own simple butterfly mind."

Edwin F. Kagin


"When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.
When God changes your mind, that's faith.
When facts change your mind, that's science." from edge.org

 

[augustino5150]

You won't find God in a book. Man wrote the Bible. God wrote Nature.
Trust in Providence...Lady Luck!

 

[Phantasmal]

'Ode To the Butterfly Mind'

"The Parliament of Butterflies
Was racked by deep division
Questions of what to teach the young
Demanded their decision.

It had been known and taught and thought
Since butterfly life began
That butterflies in glory rose
From their creators mighty hand

Now some few who this truth mocked
Had attacked faiths very pillars
All butterflies, these scientists claimed,
Came from caterpillars.

This indecent theory spread
Into butterfly education,
Until this caterpillar cult
Threatened creations revelation.

The faithful sought to restore the truth
About the origins of butterflies;
And to build an absolute moral base,
To stop the metamorphic lies.

Believe you descended from some worm
And wormlike you will be!
Reasoned those who'd seen faith's light
And knew there was nothing left to see.

We see no proof, some butterflies said
That we are all come from cocoons--
Unbelievers who would teach this tale
Are all immoral loons.

Some said the metamorphous lie
Was laid by the enemy, they believed,
Set, like candle flames and windshields,
To destroy all who were deceived.

The matter was at last resolved--
Both theories must be taught--how fine!
Now all youth can simply decide the truth,
Each in their own simple butterfly mind."

Edwin F. Kagin


"When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.
When God changes your mind, that's faith.
When facts change your mind, that's science." from edge.org

I agree, science is taught in school and religion is taught at home.

The child will discuss with their peers their beliefs. My grandchildren have not been taught about Jesus, except for the book that was sent by an Aunt, but my granddaughter wanted to pray to Jesus the other day, so I know she has talked to her peers and picked this up.

It is definitely up to each individual to decide for themselves, but I don't think schools should be teaching religion, since all creation theories vary. Just like some religious institutions don't want scientific theories brought to their churches. They should enjoy the separation and the rights afforded to each of them.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Now Darla, I don't want to have to point out that matter and energy are interchangeable and can neither be created or destroyed.

We all have an electrical charge inside us, and SOMETHING happens to that "spark" when we die.

Do we simply fade into nothingness? Or does that "spark" live on and could it be possible that we exist as disembodied energy after death?

Although energy cannot be created or destroyed, that is not the primary issue involved. You're equivocating here. The truly important part of a human being is the information stored in them. Information can very well be created and destroyed. Energy flows in and out of you at all times in your life. It is only the information that remains constant. When you die, the energy intake stops, and the heat and chemical energy that you had retained slips back into the environment without corresponding intake processes to replace them. However, these processes had been used in order to retain your information, and without their continuation, the information is lost, and can never be recovered.

When the bedouin who discovered the dead sea scrolls were freezing that night and decides to burn a few rolls, that was that. The information was gone. There's nothing that can be done to regain it. Sure, there was energy contained within those rolls, energy that was released by their ignition, energy that is still flowing around in the universe somewhere. But if you ever found it somewhere and contained it, it'd be no more use to you than any other energy, it wouldn't help you to recover that information.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Unfortunately, I cannot share any of this with members of my family, because they will believe that I'm on my way to hell for even daring to question a 6,000 year old universe and talking snakes. I'd rather them remain blissfully ignorant than worry about my soul.



What do you think about Islam, Rana?

I have obviously slipped much deeper into heresy than you, and I've never even come close to telling my parents. It is my mission in life that they should die thinking I'm a Christian.

 

[/MSG/]

I have obviously slipped much deeper into heresy than you, and I've never even come close to telling my parents. It is my mission in life that they should die thinking I'm a Christian.

Dude, try being a Pagan married to a relatively dedicated Christian. She has no idea either.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

That's a false dichotomy Brent. Religion is religion and science is science. They have different rules and functions and there's nothing to say you can't believe in both. It's not like you HAVE to make a choice here. Where is it written that believing in both is mutually exclusive?

I see Genisis as an allegory of God's gift of spirituality to humanity. I see biological evolution as an extremely useful scientific theory that helps model speciation. Why can't I believe in both?

This is the notion I find offensive about most Creationist and their religious literalism. They attempt to create this false dischotomy that one cannot be a Christian, or a person of faith, and believe in accepted scientific principles. That's an utterly falst notion.

You know, it's kind of funny. The ancient Greeks had religion that was an explanation for natural events and forces, and they got their moral guidance from moral philosophy. That is the opposite of how we do things today, where we have science (which is natural philosophy) for natural forces, and we are supposed to get our moral guidance from religion. Sure, natural philosophy cannot definitively give us moral guidance (although, I suppose, some insights from natural philosophy are sometimes useful in the moral realm), but that doesn't mean all else goes to religion. We can have moral philosophy, and gain guidance from that, without all of the superstitious nonsense weighing things down.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Dude, try being a Pagan married to a relatively dedicated Christian. She has no idea either.

she hasn't noticed your cthulhu shrine?