NAACP GOP Presidential Forum

doniston said:
)f course not. I am taller than most, so I stand out in a crowd (besides I'm purtier than most---- HEH HEH, that should account for something)

I sorta agree with the rest, but with reservations. Acnowleging differences is one thing, flaunting them is quite another.
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Then why you wanna go and make us normal folks feel bad just because your purtier than we are? :)

Stop playing the purty card. :shock:
 
blackascoal said:
The Criminal Justice System is one of many.

72% of all drug users in America are white.

13% of all drugs users in America are black.

10% of all drug users in America are hispanic.

Yet, although five times as many whites use illegal drugs as blacks, blacks constitute 36.8% of those arrested for drug violations and over 42% of those in federal prisons for drug violations. African-Americans comprise almost 58% of those in state prisons for drug felonies; Hispanics account for 20.7%.

The United States incarcerates African-American men at a rate that is approximately four times the rate of incarceration of Black men in South Africa.

Once arrested, the criminal justice system treats blacks far more harshly than whites for the exact same offense, and the disparities between prison sentencing and probation are huge. Among those arrested with at least 1.5 grams of cocaine, 94% of minorities were charged with drug dealing, while only 26% of whites were.

A study called, "Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs," looked at incarceration rates in 37 states, UPI reported June 7. The states with the highest racial disparities were Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Maine, Iowa, Maryland, Ohio, New Jersey, North Carolina and West Virginia. In these states, blacks were sent to prison on drug charges 27 to 57 times more often than white men.

For a significant number of drug offenders it was their first arrest. Less than one percent of those jailed and prosecuted by the feds fit the profile of drug lords.

Sources such as the Center for Drug Policy, DEA, Departments of Justice and Health and Human Sevices, the Sentencing Project, the Innocence Project, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and a variety of national, state, and local studies all confirm the same conclusions.

These disparities are by design, amount ot obvious institutionalized racism, and are not exclusive to just drug laws.
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doniston said:
Im sorry but I think I am going to distress somrone here I am about as non-racial as anyone can get, and thus my thought on this go along with my general thoughts. The bycotting of that frorum was not a racial thing but an anti-racial thing,

How dare a group that purportedlly is against racial strife and sterioforming, decide to hold a forum consisting only of those people who might support a particular cause Who do they think they are? Republicans? or Democrats ???
Frankly speaking, the best way to confront race is the ERASE to word race from our vocabulary. treat people as they are rather than as your own
particularly biased eye sees them
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Interesting except that extrapolating stats about drug use and stats about drug 'useage' are different even than drug related crimes involving violence. Violence and drug related crimes involving drugs give the more accurate picture. This is not a case of racism, but sadly of a breakdown in family and community that leads to crime.


"Over half of the increase in State prison population since 1995 is due to an increase in the prisoners convicted of violent offenses."
 
kaiser said:
Interesting except that extrapolating stats about drug use and stats about drug 'useage' are different even than drug related crimes involving violence. Violence and drug related crimes involving drugs give the more accurate picture. This is not a case of racism, but sadly of a breakdown in family and community that leads to crime.


"Over half of the increase in State prison population since 1995 is due to an increase in the prisoners convicted of violent offenses."
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Disparities in sentencing .. not racist?

Different people convicted of the same crime with like criminal records or absence of but resulting in vastly different outcomes .. not racially motivated? .. There is no logic or common sense to support that.

Incarceration: Jail and Prison Population at All-Time High (Again) -- Last Year Saw Biggest Increase Since 2000

The number of people behind bars in the United States reached a new all-time high last year, with some 2.24 million people in jail or prison at mid-year. The imprisoned population jumped by 62,000 people or 2.8%, the largest increase since 2000.

The figures come from the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) annual report on mid-year imprisonment numbers. One of every 133 Americans was behind bars on June 30, 2006, BJS reported.

America's title as the world's number one jailer -- with 5% of the global population, the US has 25% of the prisoners -- once again remains unchallenged, leaving contenders like Russia and China in the dust. Roughly 500,000 of the more than 2.2 million people imprisoned in the US are doing time for drug offenses, a number that goes even higher when the number of people imprisoned as parole or probation violators for using drugs is factored in.

The new numbers elicited a blast at the special interests who benefit from mass incarceration by Ethan Nadelmann, head of the Drug Policy Alliance. "Two powerful forces are at play today," said Nadelmann. "On the one hand, public opinion strongly supports alternatives to incarceration for nonviolent, and especially low-level, drug law violators – and state legislatures around the country are beginning to follow suit. On the other hand, the prison industrial complex has become a powerful force in American society, able to make the most of the political inertia that sustains knee-jerk lock-'em-up policies."

Racial minorities continue to take the brunt of both the drug war and the resort to mass incarceration in general. Black men comprised 37% of the imprisoned population, being locked up at a rate (4.8%) more than twice that of Hispanic males (1.9%) and nearly seven times that of white males (0.7%). Among black men between ages 25 and 34, a whopping 11% were behind bars.
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blackascoal said:
The Criminal Justice System is one of many.

72% of all drug users in America are white.

13% of all drugs users in America are black.

10% of all drug users in America are hispanic.

Yet, although five times as many whites use illegal drugs as blacks, blacks constitute 36.8% of those arrested for drug violations and over 42% of those in federal prisons for drug violations. African-Americans comprise almost 58% of those in state prisons for drug felonies; Hispanics account for 20.7%.

The United States incarcerates African-American men at a rate that is approximately four times the rate of incarceration of Black men in South Africa.

Once arrested, the criminal justice system treats blacks far more harshly than whites for the exact same offense, and the disparities between prison sentencing and probation are huge. Among those arrested with at least 1.5 grams of cocaine, 94% of minorities were charged with drug dealing, while only 26% of whites were.

A study called, "Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs," looked at incarceration rates in 37 states, UPI reported June 7. The states with the highest racial disparities were Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Maine, Iowa, Maryland, Ohio, New Jersey, North Carolina and West Virginia. In these states, blacks were sent to prison on drug charges 27 to 57 times more often than white men.

For a significant number of drug offenders it was their first arrest. Less than one percent of those jailed and prosecuted by the feds fit the profile of drug lords.

Sources such as the Center for Drug Policy, DEA, Departments of Justice and Health and Human Sevices, the Sentencing Project, the Innocence Project, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and a variety of national, state, and local studies all confirm the same conclusions.

These disparities are by design, amount ot obvious institutionalized racism, and are not exclusive to just drug laws.
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There's no better hideout from being caught for a crime in Mississippi than being white, having lots of money, and driving a pick-up.
 
kaiser said:
Interesting except that extrapolating stats about drug use and stats about drug 'useage' are different even than drug related crimes involving violence. Violence and drug related crimes involving drugs give the more accurate picture. This is not a case of racism, but sadly of a breakdown in family and community that leads to crime.


"Over half of the increase in State prison population since 1995 is due to an increase in the prisoners convicted of violent offenses."
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What bullshit.
 
blackascoal said:
Disparities in sentencing .. not racist?

Different people convicted of the same crime with like criminal records or absence of but resulting in vastly different outcomes .. not racially motivated? .. There is no logic or common sense to support that.

Incarceration: Jail and Prison Population at All-Time High (Again) -- Last Year Saw Biggest Increase Since 2000
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Tha'ts right it is not racist. When broke down according to state, crime, and sentencing, incarceration stats tend to be more relevent when looking at poverty levels, education, and family structure. Making the the real issue community and family.
 
kaiser said:
Now that's some real debating skill (not really). Argue with justice department stats all you want, but as it is public record I'm comfortable with it.
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It's truly annoying how you religious fanatics blame everything from poverty to constipation on "the breakdown of the family and those goddamn commie-atheists". It's honestly like fingernails on a chalk board and is a rather extreme measure of a persons stupidity.
 
Watermark said:
It's truly annoying how you religious fanatics blame everything from poverty to constipation on "the breakdown of the family and those goddamn commie-atheists". It's honestly like fingernails on a chalk board and is a rather extreme measure of a persons stupidity.
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I am not a religious fanatic and I have not blamed anyone or anything. I have provided statistical data. That your debating abilty consists of unfounded attacks and knee-jerk remarks does not make the statistics wrong, it does make you seem childish and unable to debate though.
 
Watermark said:
It's truly annoying how you religious fanatics blame everything from poverty to constipation on "the breakdown of the family and those goddamn commie-atheists". It's honestly like fingernails on a chalk board and is a rather extreme measure of a persons stupidity.
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Perceptive to have picked up on the religious overtones. Dead-on.
 
kaiser said:
Interesting except that extrapolating stats about drug use and stats about drug 'useage' are different even than drug related crimes involving violence. Violence and drug related crimes involving drugs give the more accurate picture. This is not a case of racism, but sadly of a breakdown in family and community that leads to crime.


"Over half of the increase in State prison population since 1995 is due to an increase in the prisoners convicted of violent offenses."
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And what does that prove, Kaiser? Of course if crime rates increase some of the increase is going to be from violent crime. The fact that a full half of it comes from non-violent drug charges and such doesn't alarm you, at all? The usual breakdown had been about 50/50 in any case. So what you're telling me is that things pretty much havne't changed at all since they were terrible. Thankyou.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/drug.htm

Arrests for drug charges (the vast majority of them obviously non-violent) have quadrupled since 1993. Are you trying to say that smoking pot is violent?

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/fedipc.htm

Conviction is remaining about the same, while handing out jail sentences is increasing. A relic of the idiotic racist George Wallace days.

What we are seeing is crime dropping at a tremendous rate, conviction staying the same, and the amount of population in the jail system going up exponentially. Sentences in America are ridiculous extreme, unless you're comparing us to a third-world backwater nation like China. Oftentimes even the jury and the victim is surprised at the harshness of our penalties, like that 17 year old boy in Georgia who was given ten years for getting a blow job from a 15 year old. We aren't filling up our prisons with the heap of violent criminals you fearmongerers are saying are out there prowling all the time - the proportion of the average increases from non-violent crimes has gone up tremendously. I think you fearmongerers are doing it on purpose to pad your tough on crime idiocy statistics.



Kaiser, of course someone being in poverty is going to raise the likelihood that they are going to commit a crime. I'm not arguing that. But the amount of blacks compared to whites, even adjusted to poverty levels, is rather alarming. Are you trying to say that racism has nothing to do with it? That subconsiously whites don't raise a hell of a lot more of an eyebrow to the "shady" black person than to that smiling, southern accent spewing guy with a pickup truck? I'm just trying to say that both factors play a role.
 
And much of the breakdown of the family is caused by both parents working which the gummit and business loves for taxes and the economy.

Just my opinion, but of course I am right, especially if spinner disagrees.
You know it is harder to tell if I am right since Dixie dissappeared.....
I could always go the opposite way from Dix and be assured I was correct.
 
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uscitizen said:
And much of the breakdown of the family is caused by both parents working which the gummit and business loves for taxes and the economy.

Just my opinion, but of course I am right, especially if spinner disagrees.
You know it is harder to tell if I am right since Dixie dissappeared.....
I could always go the opposite way from Dix and be assured I was correct.
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Perceptive, US.
 
kaiser said:
Tha'ts right it is not racist. When broke down according to state, crime, and sentencing, incarceration stats tend to be more relevent when looking at poverty levels, education, and family structure. Making the the real issue community and family.
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What are you talking about? Disparities in sentencing are killing communities and families.

You keep making the same false claim and dodging the question.

If different people, one white and the other black, are caught doing the same crime with like records, how does "community and family" get the white one probation and the black one a ten year jail sentence .. then multiply the same dynamic and result thousands of times over.

The reality is that if there were parity in sentencing and whites got the same sentence as non-whites, the penallties would be changed. No first time drug offense would result in a ten year sentence if there was equity in sentencing.

There is no logic or common sense to what you're claiming.
 
blackascoal said:
What are you talking about? Disparities in sentencing are killing communities and families.

You keep making the same false claim and dodging the question.

If different people, one white and the other black, are caught doing the same crime with like records, how does "community and family" get the white one probation and the black one a ten year jail sentence .. then multiply the same dynamic and result thousands of times over.

The reality is that if there were parity in sentencing and whites got the same sentence as non-whites, the penallties would be changed. No first time drug offense would result in a ten year sentence if there was equity in sentencing.

There is no logic or common sense to what you're claiming.
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Great post and I agree with your. Justice is not blind in this country.
 
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