Why would people with jobs need generous social programs? Isn't lack of amenities an incentive to get a better job?
Name one thing you agree with the opposing side on.
- Thread starter StoneByStone
- Start date
Why would people with jobs need generous social programs? Isn't lack of amenities an incentive to get a better job?
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Jade Dragon,
I have to laugh out loud. I totally know better than what you are telling me.
You told me that a year ago when I began here. I knew it was incorrect then, and time has now shown exactly that.
A year later, I have a Friends List as big as my Ignore list. Yes, there are liberals on my Ignore List. It's not about political position. It's about surrounding myself with civility. I also have conservatives on my Friends List. And I have reached out to other conservatives, inviting them to 'friend up,' but they refused. That's their problem, not mine. I reached out. That's all I can do.
You say 'maybe 50 posters that come here, if that,' well most of them must be able maintain mutual respect with me because I have a friends list almost that large.
What I have found is that many people, even if they trade insults with others, are also able to enjoy civil discourse when they don't feel threatened by the other.
So I don't threaten people, don't trade insults. (And really, what is that worth? If it makes you feel good to tell somebody off that is an indication that you are not enjoying life as much as you could. People who love their life don't have to unload on others. They derive pleasure from positive things.)
It is the epitome of: Whatever energy you put out there comes back to you.
What goes around comes around. If you wish to enjoy life, be respected, show respect, then that is the energy you have to put out to the world.
And if you wish to be immersed in insults, then just put that out there. You will be.
If you wish to discuss politics in a wide open forum without marketing and commercials, and you wish to do it in a civil manner, that is also possible.
It's a free forum. You can make your experience anything you want it to be.
Want a life of negativity? Just be as negative as you can. That energy will come back to you and swirl all around you like a black cloud.
Want a beautiful life full of positivity? Just be as positive and upbeat as you can. That energy will come back to you and become your aura.
Here's a strange thing: Most people involved in a feud think the other started it first.
If that is true then would they also be happier to not be in a feud if the other had never done that?
Apparently not.
Why?
Because remember: They each think the other started it first. They each maintain they are the victim, not the abuser.
But they both dish up the abuse, talk about how horrible the other is.
I submit that they are fooling themselves.
What's really going on is they are each insecure and they need attention so badly that this form of negative attention is better than nothing. So they keep pushing the 'Share Abuse" button.
Anyone who ever gets to the point where they can rise above that, and feel the peace and tranquility of being free of all that negative energy, (as have I) would never DREAM of wanting to go back to being stuck in an abuser/enabler relationship, constantly changing roles to feed the psychological monster. "Oh, I'm the poor little victim!" ("Well, that makes it OK to be the abuser") "No! I am the victim! You're the abuser!" "No, I'm not the abuser. I'm the poor innocent victim! I only insult you because you insulted me first. Wait a minute. If I am doing the insulting, how am I the victim?" "You're NOT the victim! I'm the victim, you dirty so & so!"
Looks like we've got a lot of pretty dangerous 'victims' around here, fully capable of playing the abuser.
It all sounds so simply when I just spill the beans like that.
But it isn't.
These things are very deep psychological personality traits which are so deeply ingrained they are nearly impossible to rise above.
It's not like somebody can just make a post, explain it all, and then everybody 'gets it,' and it never has to happen again.
How do you get OUT of such deeply ingrained habits?
(Full disclosure - I had counseling. I worked out a lot of issues decades ago. So glad I did!)
First, you have to be coldly honest. You can't fool yourself on any of this or the fooling will poison any chance of transcendence. You have to admit that you have a problem.
Second, you have to take appropriate measures, mental exercises designed to transform your thinking from the current undesirable patterns to what you want to be. (If you truly want to be that - big IF.)
That's IT!
Of course, the first part is the biggest hurdle. Most insecure people will do everything possible to avoid admitting they have a problem. Getting over that is the big challenge. You have to really want to. You have to admit you are not as happy as you can be. That's tough to face. People don't want to admit that. But if you can, that's what it takes.
Once you admit you have room for improvement, and you believe that you can improve (another toughie,) you've already jumped the biggest hurdle, that first one. Then it is simply a matter of figuring out how to improve and making it happen.
Making it happen involves changing your habits. Humans are creatures of habit. Habits can be changed. You pretty much have to decide you want to change in order to create a change for the better. The best way to change habits is to replace an existing bad habit with a desired good one. So, every time you have the urge to repeat the old undesirable habit, you stop yourself and force yourself to perform the new desired habit. You do this manually for 2-3 weeks. That's it!
Most habits can be changed in 2-3 weeks. After that amount of time consciously forcing yourself to do a desired habit, what you find is that you no longer have to think about it. It just comes naturally. Because by then it IS your habit to do that. Congratulations. You have improved your own life.
Simple to say.
Quite another thing to do.
Because you have to want it bad enough.
Is JPP 'not the place' for positive people? Well, that depends on how strong your positivity is. Mine is fine. I am happy here. I love my life.
I'll tell you something else.
If you master this technique of changing your habits?
That is more powerful than all the money in the world.
Donald Trump is a billionaire. I am WAY happier than he is. I love my life. I don't think he really loves his life. I think he's got a lot of issues that I don't have. And they make him sad. And it's absurd because he can afford the counseling to deal with his issues. His ego won't let him. Too bad for him. I can't tell him better. Nobody can. It's his problem. Sure. It spills over into my life because he's President. But he won't be President forever. And I will love my life right up to the end. Because I put out, get back, and surround myself with good energy. He doesn't. Too bad for him. Very good for me. Anybody can be happy. Most people aren't. You just have to get past step one.
It's simplicated.
Simple, but complicated.
Simplicated.
Tee Hee! I made up a new word. I amused myself again. Oh darn. Enjoying life again. Like James Taylor sang: "The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time....................."
I have to laugh out loud. I totally know better than what you are telling me.
You told me that a year ago when I began here. I knew it was incorrect then, and time has now shown exactly that.
A year later, I have a Friends List as big as my Ignore list. Yes, there are liberals on my Ignore List. It's not about political position. It's about surrounding myself with civility. I also have conservatives on my Friends List. And I have reached out to other conservatives, inviting them to 'friend up,' but they refused. That's their problem, not mine. I reached out. That's all I can do.
You say 'maybe 50 posters that come here, if that,' well most of them must be able maintain mutual respect with me because I have a friends list almost that large.
What I have found is that many people, even if they trade insults with others, are also able to enjoy civil discourse when they don't feel threatened by the other.
So I don't threaten people, don't trade insults. (And really, what is that worth? If it makes you feel good to tell somebody off that is an indication that you are not enjoying life as much as you could. People who love their life don't have to unload on others. They derive pleasure from positive things.)
It is the epitome of: Whatever energy you put out there comes back to you.
What goes around comes around. If you wish to enjoy life, be respected, show respect, then that is the energy you have to put out to the world.
And if you wish to be immersed in insults, then just put that out there. You will be.
If you wish to discuss politics in a wide open forum without marketing and commercials, and you wish to do it in a civil manner, that is also possible.
It's a free forum. You can make your experience anything you want it to be.
Want a life of negativity? Just be as negative as you can. That energy will come back to you and swirl all around you like a black cloud.
Want a beautiful life full of positivity? Just be as positive and upbeat as you can. That energy will come back to you and become your aura.
Here's a strange thing: Most people involved in a feud think the other started it first.
If that is true then would they also be happier to not be in a feud if the other had never done that?
Apparently not.
Why?
Because remember: They each think the other started it first. They each maintain they are the victim, not the abuser.
But they both dish up the abuse, talk about how horrible the other is.
I submit that they are fooling themselves.
What's really going on is they are each insecure and they need attention so badly that this form of negative attention is better than nothing. So they keep pushing the 'Share Abuse" button.
Anyone who ever gets to the point where they can rise above that, and feel the peace and tranquility of being free of all that negative energy, (as have I) would never DREAM of wanting to go back to being stuck in an abuser/enabler relationship, constantly changing roles to feed the psychological monster. "Oh, I'm the poor little victim!" ("Well, that makes it OK to be the abuser") "No! I am the victim! You're the abuser!" "No, I'm not the abuser. I'm the poor innocent victim! I only insult you because you insulted me first. Wait a minute. If I am doing the insulting, how am I the victim?" "You're NOT the victim! I'm the victim, you dirty so & so!"
Looks like we've got a lot of pretty dangerous 'victims' around here, fully capable of playing the abuser.
It all sounds so simply when I just spill the beans like that.
But it isn't.
These things are very deep psychological personality traits which are so deeply ingrained they are nearly impossible to rise above.
It's not like somebody can just make a post, explain it all, and then everybody 'gets it,' and it never has to happen again.
How do you get OUT of such deeply ingrained habits?
(Full disclosure - I had counseling. I worked out a lot of issues decades ago. So glad I did!)
First, you have to be coldly honest. You can't fool yourself on any of this or the fooling will poison any chance of transcendence. You have to admit that you have a problem.
Second, you have to take appropriate measures, mental exercises designed to transform your thinking from the current undesirable patterns to what you want to be. (If you truly want to be that - big IF.)
That's IT!
Of course, the first part is the biggest hurdle. Most insecure people will do everything possible to avoid admitting they have a problem. Getting over that is the big challenge. You have to really want to. You have to admit you are not as happy as you can be. That's tough to face. People don't want to admit that. But if you can, that's what it takes.
Once you admit you have room for improvement, and you believe that you can improve (another toughie,) you've already jumped the biggest hurdle, that first one. Then it is simply a matter of figuring out how to improve and making it happen.
Making it happen involves changing your habits. Humans are creatures of habit. Habits can be changed. You pretty much have to decide you want to change in order to create a change for the better. The best way to change habits is to replace an existing bad habit with a desired good one. So, every time you have the urge to repeat the old undesirable habit, you stop yourself and force yourself to perform the new desired habit. You do this manually for 2-3 weeks. That's it!
Most habits can be changed in 2-3 weeks. After that amount of time consciously forcing yourself to do a desired habit, what you find is that you no longer have to think about it. It just comes naturally. Because by then it IS your habit to do that. Congratulations. You have improved your own life.
Simple to say.
Quite another thing to do.
Because you have to want it bad enough.
Is JPP 'not the place' for positive people? Well, that depends on how strong your positivity is. Mine is fine. I am happy here. I love my life.
I'll tell you something else.
If you master this technique of changing your habits?
That is more powerful than all the money in the world.
Donald Trump is a billionaire. I am WAY happier than he is. I love my life. I don't think he really loves his life. I think he's got a lot of issues that I don't have. And they make him sad. And it's absurd because he can afford the counseling to deal with his issues. His ego won't let him. Too bad for him. I can't tell him better. Nobody can. It's his problem. Sure. It spills over into my life because he's President. But he won't be President forever. And I will love my life right up to the end. Because I put out, get back, and surround myself with good energy. He doesn't. Too bad for him. Very good for me. Anybody can be happy. Most people aren't. You just have to get past step one.
It's simplicated.
Simple, but complicated.
Simplicated.
Tee Hee! I made up a new word. I amused myself again. Oh darn. Enjoying life again. Like James Taylor sang: "The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time....................."
Vasquezrocks
Verified User
Blow hard much .....
Jade Dragon
And I'm the one that jaded you.
Well you have 3 conservatives on your friend list, and 1 conservative light, so I'll give you that. You took too long to describe what you're saying though.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello StoneByStone,
No. I'm not OK with that, really. I mean we have to have that as long as working doesn't pay enough to live on. But I think it is a bandaid kind of solution. The way to really fix it is to raise the minimum wage. I will tell you why.
I'm thinking capitalism is amazing. Capitalism has done a fantastic job of bringing us a modern life. We've got stuff. Oh do we have stuff. Very cool stuff. Capitalism, the magic engine of creativity and motivation has produced so much, brought us everything we ever needed and more. And for a lot of that stuff, the market is saturated. It's really hard to come up with new ways to get money out of people. So the name of the game in business is EFFICIENCY.
The more efficient you make your business, the more money you make! So you want the lowest cost of supplies and labor and you want the highest price for your products. You can't really do much about what the market will pay, but you can cut costs by making sure every worker you hire is as productive as possible. So you redefine the job descriptions. You minimize benefit outlay. You use workers sparingly, send them home when they are not productive. Maybe they don't all get to work a full week. Not capitalism's problem. Oh, it is a problem WITH capitalism. Capitalism caused that, but capitalism doesn't care about that. It's not a problem for capitalism. It will march merrily on, looking for other ways to be efficient at production.
What we as a society get from capitalism is a system that doesn't care if workers can't make it on what they earn. And the more workers there are, the less employers have to pay. Supply and demand, the basic rule of capitalism.
Also, the fewer good jobs there are, the less employers have to pay for the lousy jobs. Because that means there will be more people looking for the lousy jobs. People that got booted out of better jobs will take any job they can get and they will often displace people down the food chain, placing even more demand out there for lower paying jobs with fewer benefits.
And capitalism has done an amazingly efficient job of all of this for decade, after decade, after decade, after decade, after decade, after decade, after World War II. (Back when America was great.)
I made my own way in this world. When I was young I really lucked out and stumbled into a great career which lasted 25 years and earned me big money. In the middle of it I fantasized about finding a protege and passing on what I had learned about how easy it was to succeed at doing this job. Well, nothing stays the same. Little did I know, I had stumbled into this career in it's infancy, and I worked it for as long as it was needed. And then it changed. Jobs got offshored and downsized. People actually still do what I did back then. But one person can use the tools of today and do what it took 20 to do back then.
There was a quality to the work back then that imparted a sense of pride in a job well done. I actually made the transition and did the job with the fancy new tools. But those tools sucked the pleasure out of doing the job. All the pride that went with it also got sucked out. And since the tools made the job so easy, so did the pay get sucked OUT.
And that was no mistake. Capitalism did that on purpose. I. - I was the mistake. The fact that I had been paid well to do what I did and get that pride, none of that was the goal of capitalism. Capitalism's goal was to eliminate that. Which it eventually did. I did go on to find other work. Like a Phoenix, I rose from the ashes of that first career and I found another one that I could do. And IT paid well, too! I was OK. I was also incredibly lucky to have good contacts. And I know that came from my upbringing.
The big picture is: I don't think today's world is as easy to make it in as the one I had when I was young. Capitalism has become too efficient. There aren't many loopholes like my first career in capitalism any more. Any high cost of production or labor has already been eliminated. They are just looking for the SMALL stuff NOW. Getting ever more efficient at making money for Wall Street. A lot of the good jobs, like I had for 25 years, they don't exist any more. I couldn't take a protege under my arm and say: "This is how ya do it."
Oh, that other job I found? The small mom n pop business I worked for sold out to a larger national outfit and I was laid off within a year. Luckily for me I already saved enough to be OK without work. I would still be working if they had kept me. I was good at what I did. And I don't feel like starting over again as a grunt. With no paid vacation built up. Heck. I was up to SIX WEEKS PAID VACATION A YEAR. I actually had at LEAST 6 weeks paid vacation a year my whole working life. Can you IMAGINE? I'm sure 'imagine' all most people CAN do. What job has benefits like THAT?
But I sure couldn't see how I could have the life I've had, if I had to start all over again now. My advice to the young would be try to find a job with a small employer who is successful, good natured, generous, and youngish. If the owners of the business are older, they will be tempted to sell out when they are ready to retire. When businesses get bought, workers usually come out worse for it. Workers either lose jobs or get downgraded.
We have seen enough to know that capitalism does not care for the well being of the lower echelon. Anybody, really, except the owners of great wealth and capital. After all. It's not called 'Peopleism.' It's capitalism. That's why we have to have a minimum wage. And a shorter workweek. Because it is time for surviving in our economy to become more efficient. Now, we also need to look at taxing the large employers whose workers we taxpayers support. But we know there would be far fewer working people on taxpayer assistance if more of them earned enough to live on. Ideally, in order to make American great again, one worker with a high school education should be able to support a whole family and have a 6 week paid vacation every year, health insurance, and a retirement package. And if it requires more education for that, then that education should be paid for by taxing the rich people who make so much money off of Wall Street. Free K-16 public education needs to become a reality. For those who get good grades. Those who don't need to get thrown out of good schools and/or routed into special ed.
Bottom line: The country is working just as hard as we can. People need to get properly paid for it. What we've got today for jobs is a joke. And it's not the immigrants fault. It's the Class War.
No. I'm not OK with that, really. I mean we have to have that as long as working doesn't pay enough to live on. But I think it is a bandaid kind of solution. The way to really fix it is to raise the minimum wage. I will tell you why.
I'm thinking capitalism is amazing. Capitalism has done a fantastic job of bringing us a modern life. We've got stuff. Oh do we have stuff. Very cool stuff. Capitalism, the magic engine of creativity and motivation has produced so much, brought us everything we ever needed and more. And for a lot of that stuff, the market is saturated. It's really hard to come up with new ways to get money out of people. So the name of the game in business is EFFICIENCY.
The more efficient you make your business, the more money you make! So you want the lowest cost of supplies and labor and you want the highest price for your products. You can't really do much about what the market will pay, but you can cut costs by making sure every worker you hire is as productive as possible. So you redefine the job descriptions. You minimize benefit outlay. You use workers sparingly, send them home when they are not productive. Maybe they don't all get to work a full week. Not capitalism's problem. Oh, it is a problem WITH capitalism. Capitalism caused that, but capitalism doesn't care about that. It's not a problem for capitalism. It will march merrily on, looking for other ways to be efficient at production.
What we as a society get from capitalism is a system that doesn't care if workers can't make it on what they earn. And the more workers there are, the less employers have to pay. Supply and demand, the basic rule of capitalism.
Also, the fewer good jobs there are, the less employers have to pay for the lousy jobs. Because that means there will be more people looking for the lousy jobs. People that got booted out of better jobs will take any job they can get and they will often displace people down the food chain, placing even more demand out there for lower paying jobs with fewer benefits.
And capitalism has done an amazingly efficient job of all of this for decade, after decade, after decade, after decade, after decade, after decade, after World War II. (Back when America was great.)
I made my own way in this world. When I was young I really lucked out and stumbled into a great career which lasted 25 years and earned me big money. In the middle of it I fantasized about finding a protege and passing on what I had learned about how easy it was to succeed at doing this job. Well, nothing stays the same. Little did I know, I had stumbled into this career in it's infancy, and I worked it for as long as it was needed. And then it changed. Jobs got offshored and downsized. People actually still do what I did back then. But one person can use the tools of today and do what it took 20 to do back then.
There was a quality to the work back then that imparted a sense of pride in a job well done. I actually made the transition and did the job with the fancy new tools. But those tools sucked the pleasure out of doing the job. All the pride that went with it also got sucked out. And since the tools made the job so easy, so did the pay get sucked OUT.
And that was no mistake. Capitalism did that on purpose. I. - I was the mistake. The fact that I had been paid well to do what I did and get that pride, none of that was the goal of capitalism. Capitalism's goal was to eliminate that. Which it eventually did. I did go on to find other work. Like a Phoenix, I rose from the ashes of that first career and I found another one that I could do. And IT paid well, too! I was OK. I was also incredibly lucky to have good contacts. And I know that came from my upbringing.
The big picture is: I don't think today's world is as easy to make it in as the one I had when I was young. Capitalism has become too efficient. There aren't many loopholes like my first career in capitalism any more. Any high cost of production or labor has already been eliminated. They are just looking for the SMALL stuff NOW. Getting ever more efficient at making money for Wall Street. A lot of the good jobs, like I had for 25 years, they don't exist any more. I couldn't take a protege under my arm and say: "This is how ya do it."
Oh, that other job I found? The small mom n pop business I worked for sold out to a larger national outfit and I was laid off within a year. Luckily for me I already saved enough to be OK without work. I would still be working if they had kept me. I was good at what I did. And I don't feel like starting over again as a grunt. With no paid vacation built up. Heck. I was up to SIX WEEKS PAID VACATION A YEAR. I actually had at LEAST 6 weeks paid vacation a year my whole working life. Can you IMAGINE? I'm sure 'imagine' all most people CAN do. What job has benefits like THAT?
But I sure couldn't see how I could have the life I've had, if I had to start all over again now. My advice to the young would be try to find a job with a small employer who is successful, good natured, generous, and youngish. If the owners of the business are older, they will be tempted to sell out when they are ready to retire. When businesses get bought, workers usually come out worse for it. Workers either lose jobs or get downgraded.
We have seen enough to know that capitalism does not care for the well being of the lower echelon. Anybody, really, except the owners of great wealth and capital. After all. It's not called 'Peopleism.' It's capitalism. That's why we have to have a minimum wage. And a shorter workweek. Because it is time for surviving in our economy to become more efficient. Now, we also need to look at taxing the large employers whose workers we taxpayers support. But we know there would be far fewer working people on taxpayer assistance if more of them earned enough to live on. Ideally, in order to make American great again, one worker with a high school education should be able to support a whole family and have a 6 week paid vacation every year, health insurance, and a retirement package. And if it requires more education for that, then that education should be paid for by taxing the rich people who make so much money off of Wall Street. Free K-16 public education needs to become a reality. For those who get good grades. Those who don't need to get thrown out of good schools and/or routed into special ed.
Bottom line: The country is working just as hard as we can. People need to get properly paid for it. What we've got today for jobs is a joke. And it's not the immigrants fault. It's the Class War.
evince
Truthmatters
good post
very heartfelt and honest
if at any moment in life you deem your self perfect (for whatever reason) you are in for personal unhappiness.
accepting ones own mistakes is the only way to happiness
I actually feel good when I recognize I have been wrong and wave that flag high.
I feel like a true success as a human
The ability to face facts and place them above the weakness of not being able to admit when you are wrong
The right is well stuck in that horrible corner
even when they are forced to do so
a couple of years later they go right back to the lie that they were not wrong
The moment that trump was able to own the republican party was when they were forcing all the other R candidates to claim the Iraq was was not a mistake in a debate
Trump called it out and said it was a mistake
the crowd of republicans roared their approval
it was over
the party then belonged to trump
all lies are evil
even the ones we tell ourselves to avoid hard truths about our selves
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
I'm open to exceptions. If a person is unemployed, but can prove that they are looking for work, they should be able to take advantage of the programs. Same goes for people who physically can't work due to a disability. There could also be an exception made for people in school because they have had to switch careers, because they were laid off in a field that no longer really offers jobs.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
If a person have a full time job, and they live in a first world industrialized country like America, they shouldn't have to worry about living in poverty.
Not everyone is able to get a better job, because of classism, but even that is besides the point. We should take care of working Americans.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
Pence won't win. Trump is a cult of personality. Pence has the personality of a zombie.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
That's not why they created the EU. It was created to keep European countries from going to war with each other again. It was supposed to be Europe's UN.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
No, which is why it's good that we allow people to pick their own jobs, rather that select jobs for them. Now it is true that most people pick their jobs simply because they need the money, but with a Liberal Socialist economy, people will have more money so they'll be able to chase their dreams. The person working at Burger King because he needs to feed his children will be able to afford college while he's working, so that he can pursue the field he wants.
Classism? There is no such thing. Name any government program or law that forces people into classes that makes it illegal for them to obtain employment. Except of course Affirmative Action.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
too soon to tell......you may run a real zombie against him if Hillary dies by then.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
sure it was,,,,,,
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
From what I've been reading about the Green New Deal and other progressive ideas regarding income, it seems like they want to supplement the income of a working person who doesn't earn enough to live on independently (i.e., not living with parents). So we have a choice between either doing that, or raising the minimum wage to the point where an individual can afford to live frugally by working only one FT job. Sounds fair to me. Of course I could be totally misinterpreting what they are saying. If so feel free to correct me.
I would like to see a government-run employment clearinghouse set up, preferably at the state level with some federal funding. Employers could use it to post open positions and requirements; job-seekers could use it to find good matches. I know Missouri used to do this but dropped it long ago. The states could charge the employers a minimal fee to offset the cost of buying/maintaining computer servers, IT personnel to enter data, and so on. Maybe employers offering entry-level, living wage, positions -- with on-the-job training even -- could have the fees waived.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
I'll go get the cement truck. lol
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
I don't like the EU, I want it to disband. I'm not lying in order to defend the EU, just stating the truth.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
And someone can get the same info from an Unemployment Office.
Damn you're stupid.
