DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
I'm afraid that you'll just have to accept the science, just like pro-gay groups have done. They celebrated the survey in Hartford, CT. http://www.hartfordinfo.org/issues/documents/people/htfd_courant_101306.asp
I'm afraid that you'll just have to accept the science, just like pro-gay groups have done. They celebrated the survey in Hartford, CT. http://www.hartfordinfo.org/issues/documents/people/htfd_courant_101306.asp
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So if I show a celebration of the study that showed homosexuality is not a choice, are you going to accept it?
If I show a celebration of the acceptance of gay marriage, are you going to accept it?
The US Census does not ask about sexual orientation. You were avoiding that when you posted the "do your own research" answer.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
1. http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html#Argumentum ad numerum
2. My argument was never based on relative numbers except to point out that scholars disagree. Simple logic is that the story of creation was written for the understanding of ancient man. To include, say, an explanation of DNA, would not have been appropriate.
3. Again, you asked for the form and specific details, so the burden is on you. I have always dealt with the study summary.
4. I’m not interested in the location of the gene but whether it exists or not. Simple logic and complex science so far says there is none.
5. A harmful habit begins with an impulse. Homosexuality, like robbery, is indeed defined by the act. For example, I would love to steal the bank’s money, but I do not because I am not a thief.
6. Again, I suggest that you review the data yourself as it is undeniable and has been accepted by groups pro and con alike.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
You appear to be going off the deep end with this and being nonsensical.
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3) You gave me the form and told me to do my own research. But there is not one single question on the US Census that asks about sexuality. Not a single one at all.
4) Research, such as the information Thorn related to you, has shown that medical research is showing more and more that homosexuality is not a choice. Whether there is a "gay gene" or some other physiological reason is still be researched.
5) I do not care what the definition of a harmful habit is. We are discussing homosexuality. And the definition of "homosexuality" includes the desire, not necessarily the act.
6) I suggest that, unlike any groups, I am not willing to make assumptions and leaps of faith based on the vaguest references.
The US Census does not ask about sexual orientation. Kinsey DID ask specifically about sexual orientation. So the numbers of gays in the USA is, in my estimation, more accurately relayed by the Kinsey Report.
And since you have tried to assert that the gay population is closer to 1% than 10%, based on your claims that the gay community is lying to push the numbers higher, its rather hypocritical of you to use them as a source of reputable info.
You claimed that the population of gays is closer to 1% than 10%. And all you have done since is dance around the topic, not producing a single piece of evidence of a survey or study involving sexuality.
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Not in the least. You offered a census form as evidence of your point. I asked you several times to show me where the census asked about sexual orientation. You have been purposely vague. The reason, I blieve, for that vagueness is that you cannot find what does not exist.
Also, you are telling me that I will just have to accept that the census showed how many gays and lesbians live in the US. And yet you will not accept that homosexuality is not a choice.
There is scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice.
The census does not ask about sexuality at all.
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Just to help clarify my answer of "5) I do not care what the definition of a harmful habit is. We are discussing homosexuality. And the definition of "homosexuality" includes the desire, not necessarily the act.", here is the actual definitions:
homosexuality - 5 dictionary results
ho⋅mo⋅sex⋅u⋅al⋅i⋅ty /ˌhoʊməˌsɛkʃuˈælɪti, or, especially Brit., -ˌsɛksyu-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-al-i-tee, or, especially Brit., -seks-yoo-] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1890–95; homo- + sexuality
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Cite This Source
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty (hō'mə-sěk'shōō-āl'ĭ-tē, -mō-) Pronunciation Key
n.
Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
Sexual activity with another of the same sex.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
homosexuality
noun
a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
Cite This Source
homosexuality
A sexual attraction between persons of the same sex. (See gay and lesbian; compare heterosexuality.)
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
homosexuality ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty (hō'mə-sěk'sh&oomacr;-āl'ĭ-tē, -mō-)
n.
Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
Sexual activity with another of the same sex.
The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Cite This Source
If you will notice (and even if you won't) each definition includes attraction and desire as a requisite without acting on it.
homosexuality - 5 dictionary results
ho⋅mo⋅sex⋅u⋅al⋅i⋅ty /ˌhoʊməˌsɛkʃuˈælɪti, or, especially Brit., -ˌsɛksyu-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hoh-muh-sek-shoo-al-i-tee, or, especially Brit., -seks-yoo-] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1890–95; homo- + sexuality
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Cite This Source
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty (hō'mə-sěk'shōō-āl'ĭ-tē, -mō-) Pronunciation Key
n.
Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
Sexual activity with another of the same sex.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
homosexuality
noun
a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
Cite This Source
homosexuality
A sexual attraction between persons of the same sex. (See gay and lesbian; compare heterosexuality.)
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
homosexuality ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty (hō'mə-sěk'sh&oomacr;-āl'ĭ-tē, -mō-)
n.
Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
Sexual activity with another of the same sex.
The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Cite This Source
If you will notice (and even if you won't) each definition includes attraction and desire as a requisite without acting on it.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
m-w.com
Main Entry:
1ho·mo·sex·u·al
1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex 2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
I refer to definition #2 for the reason previous stated.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Again, what the Hartford Courant article shows is that the gay community accepts the Census conclusions.
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The reason previously stated is nonsense. You used the analogy of a thief. Thinking about stealing is in no way a theft. But being attracted to persons of the same sex IS homosexuality.
The first definition is considered the main definition, as evidenced by it being the only definition in the American Heritage Dictionary. The attraction to the same sex is what defines homosexuality. The sex act itself is simply acting on that.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
3. Again, I look at the data summary. Unless you can show that the US Government purposely mislead the public about the results, then I will stick with my earlier conclusion.
4. Thorn’s position appears to be that a chemical imbalance acting in the womb may cause a certain percentage of homosexuality. This would make it analogous to a birth defect, and one that in nature leads to a genetic dead end, and is therefore self limiting. If that is the case, then my position is that society should act to control the defect instead of trying to promote it. Also, it is apparent that some homosexuals do not have this defect and act totally out of choice. Society should not encourage this immoral and deviant behavior.
5. Answered elsewhere.
6. Answered in item 3 above.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
I suggest that you look at the unabridged version of the American Heritage Dictionary.
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I am absolutely happy for them. But since I am not gay and do not live in Hartford, that really doesn't matter.
The best that the census can provide is the number of gay couples living in the same primary residence.
To quote that as the total gay population in the USA is completely inaccurate.
The studies which extrapolate the number of gays and lesbians in the US based on the Census bureau all have to have a number of gays in the US to work from.
On the website gaydata.org, the report concerning the US Census states that:
"In addition, the questionnaire did not ask the actual sexual orientation of the respondent so gay and lesbian households were determined by gender and relationship only."
"The U.S. Census Bureau did not count single gay or lesbian people, nor did it count those people in relationshipsbut not living together in the same residence."
"Studies on the total number of gay and lesbian people in the United States show a range from 2 percent to 10 percent of the total population. In the last three elections, the Voter News Service exit poll registered the gay vote between 4 percent and 5 percent. While concluding that the Census 2000 undercounted the total number of gay or lesbian households, for the purposes of this study, we estimate the gay and lesbian population at 5 percent of the total U.S. population over 18 years of age, (209,128,094)."
So you can see from the last quote that the study you quoted used a figure of 5%. And this was based on taking a middle ground of the previous estimates ranging between 2% and 10%. So the entire head count you wish to call at 1% is pure supposition and guesstimates.
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I posted the definition from 5 dictionaries (including dictionary.com), if you have some other source feel free to post it.
But the idea that homosexuality is based solely on the act and not the desire is simply ridiculous.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
I think what this comes down to is your insistence that anyone who has ever had a queer thought is all of a sudden gay. My definition as well as the US Census definition is scientific, which counts only people who are actually in a gay household. Then by comparing this to the total cohabitation households in the US, comes up with an accurate figure. That figure may be much or so higher in San Fransisco then the US overall, but the average is a mere 1%.
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3) I have given you citations from the study that refute your 1% argument. And it comes from the very source you used.
4) Thorn's position is addresses what may be a cause of homosexuality. The idea that society should try and remove all that does not fit with strict observances of nature is ridiculous. None of your religious beliefs have a basis in nature either. But we do not attempt to control it as a defect.
You answer hear harkens back to the days when being lefthanded was something that people tried to "cure".
Unless you are going to propose that we require all people to reproduce, the idea that we should try and control gayness as a defect because it is not pro-reproduction is ludicrious.
Homosexuality has been with mankind since the beginning of recorded history (that we can prove). To call it a defect because it is not conducive to reproduction is to ignore the fact that our population has grown in an unending fashion.
As a matter of fact, considering the ever growing population and the ever shrinking resources, if you believe homosexuality to be a choice then the responsible thing would be to encourage it.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Again, a more detailed dictionary has multiple definitions, and I, as well as the US Census bureau, have chosen a different, more scientific definition that you have.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
3. My “source” is the US Census. The link that I provided was simply a method to get to the actual study.
4. Again, my position is that homosexuality is not normal, moral or healthy, and therefore society should not encourage it.
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So you are saying that anyone who is not living in a gay household is not gay? wtf?
No, I have never said that anyone who has ever had a queer thought is gay. If you are going to make up quotes and attribute them to me, at least make up good ones.
And please show me one source of the definition of homosexuality that "...counts only people who are actually in a gay household".
From the same study you quoted (and claimed to have read the results of):
"A recent study of gay and lesbian voting habits conducted by Harris Interactive 1 determined that 30 percent of gay and lesbian people are living in a committed relationship in the same residence."
So only 30% of gays and lesbians are living in a committed relationship in the same residence. And yet you claim that those people are the ONLY ones who are gay.
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Your "source" does not ask a single question about sexuality. Which makes it a rather shakey "source", wouldn't you say?
Your position is all well and good. If you want to believe that, more power to you. But you are making assertions that homosexuality is a choice, and therefore you are ignoring all data to the contrary.