New Yorkers live longer!

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Since you have brought up the Logical Fallacies several times, I feel we should address these.

Argumentum ad antiquitatem (the argument to antiquity or tradition).
This has been one of your arguments against gay marriage.


Argumentum ad hominem (argument directed at the person). Both of us have been guilty of this one to some degree, although I think they have been incidental to the debate.


Argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument to ignorance). I have not assumed anything was true without evidence. You have assumed that homosexuality is a choice and that the US Census uses a certain definition of "homosexuality", despite there being no proof of either.


Argumentum ad logicam (argument to logic). This may be what you have wanted to point out to me concerning my argument about whether the census is an accurate way of determining how many gays are in the USA. But you are mistaken on this one. I have asked several times for you to clarify what the census actually said, and for you to provide any other evidence. You have steadfastly refused to do so. By counting gays that are in committed relationships AND living together, you propose to have the entire number of gays in the nation. That does not follow at all.





I do not have the time to review each fallacy listed. If I have missed the one you intended for me to see, please copy and paste it specifically.
 
Solitary said:
Again, you are missing the ENTIRE point of what I have been saying. The census NEVER asked about sexuality.

The absolute best you can hope for with that survey is to get an idea of how many gay couples live together.

How does that tell you how many gay people are in america???
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Wow it's not rocket science, man. The census compared gay couples who live together with straight ones. The gays make up 1%, which reflects on the population as a whole. It's called "polling".
 
Southern Man said:
Wow it's not rocket science, man. The census compared gay couples who live together with straight ones. The gays make up 1%, which reflects on the population as a whole. It's called "polling".
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No, its not rocket science. It is your assumption and argument that flat out wrong.

The census shows data that allows us to GUESS at the number of gay couples living together.

Unless you are saying that ALL gays are part of a couple that live together, the census data is not even close to accurate. You have no way of guessing at what percentage of the gay population is in a relationship and sharing a home.

Without that information you have no useable data to argue that the 10% figure is inaccurate.
 
Solitary said:
No, its not rocket science. It is your assumption and argument that flat out wrong.

The census shows data that allows us to GUESS at the number of gay couples living together.

Unless you are saying that ALL gays are part of a couple that live together, the census data is not even close to accurate. You have no way of guessing at what percentage of the gay population is in a relationship and sharing a home.

Without that information you have no useable data to argue that the 10% figure is inaccurate.
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A poll is a sampling of a data set. The 2000 census has the largest data set ever compiled to answer the question. You may not like the answer, but even pro-gay groups agree with it.
 
Southern Man said:
A poll is a sampling of a data set. The 2000 census has the largest data set ever compiled to answer the question. You may not like the answer, but even pro-gay groups agree with it.
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I saw that they like that it showed an increase in the number of gays in certain areas.

But that still does not make it valid data.

It does make a valid guess at the number of gay couples living in the same house.




Since you claim it is valid data, please tell me how it determines how many gays there are that are not in relationships or not sharing a residence?

Because that would be a significant majority of the population of gays, at least in my estimation.
 
Solitary said:
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Since you claim it is valid data, please tell me how it determines how many gays there are that are not in relationships or not sharing a residence?
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I've answered your question previously, several times. Perhaps you should take a course in basic statistics.
 
Southern Man said:
I've answered your question previously, several times. Perhaps you should take a course in basic statistics.
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No you have NOT answered this question. You have repeated the same junk about the census, but you have not explained how they counted the gays that were not in a relationship and not sharing a residence.

That is an outright lie.
 
Solitary said:
No you have NOT answered this question. You have repeated the same junk about the census, but you have not explained how they counted the gays that were not in a relationship and not sharing a residence.

That is an outright lie.
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Posts 75 and 102 both answer your question. :cool:
 
Southern Man said:
Posts 75 and 102 both answer your question. :cool:
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"I think what this comes down to is your insistence that anyone who has ever had a queer thought is all of a sudden gay. My definition as well as the US Census definition is scientific, which counts only people who are actually in a gay household. Then by comparing this to the total cohabitation households in the US, comes up with an accurate figure. That figure may be much or so higher in San Fransisco then the US overall, but the average is a mere 1%."

"Wow it's not rocket science, man. The census compared gay couples who live together with straight ones. The gays make up 1%, which reflects on the population as a whole. It's called "polling"."



No, neither of those answered my question of how you claim to get the number of gays in the USA by counting those who cohabitate as a same sex couple.

There is no accounting for gays who are not in a relationship or who are in a relationship and not living together.

So you are either lying about having answered the question, or you are claiming that the only gays in the USA are in relationships and living together.
 
Solitary said:
"I think what this comes down to is your insistence that anyone who has ever had a queer thought is all of a sudden gay. My definition as well as the US Census definition is scientific, which counts only people who are actually in a gay household. Then by comparing this to the total cohabitation households in the US, comes up with an accurate figure. That figure may be much or so higher in San Fransisco then the US overall, but the average is a mere 1%."

"Wow it's not rocket science, man. The census compared gay couples who live together with straight ones. The gays make up 1%, which reflects on the population as a whole. It's called "polling"."



No, neither of those answered my question of how you claim to get the number of gays in the USA by counting those who cohabitate as a same sex couple.

There is no accounting for gays who are not in a relationship or who are in a relationship and not living together.

So you are either lying about having answered the question, or you are claiming that the only gays in the USA are in relationships and living together.
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Clearly the assumption is that gays would cohabitate as often as hetero couples would cohabitate thus it would be relatively accurate to assume that gays make up the same percentage of the overall population as they do of the subset of those who cohabit with their partner.
 
Clearly there are some who lack a basic understanding of simple concepts and for some reason unknowable to me feel the need to justify their continued ignorance by lashing out at the person attempting to educate them by calling them a "liar".
 
The assumption that there is such a commonality between gays and straights as far as the number of singles versus couples is a stretch.

But the cohabitating couples is a different matter. The number of gay couples who are willing to admit that they are living together as a couple would most certainly be lower than straight couples doing the same.

A straight couple living together does not face any repurcussions, as a gay couple would. So in many parts of the country, they would be far less likely to do so.




And, despite the huge numbers of the census, the lack of data requires far too many assumptions to base the argument that the Kinsey Report and other sexuality based studies were wrong in their use of 10% as a number for the gay population in the US.
 
Solitary said:
....

But the cohabitating couples is a different matter. The number of gay couples who are willing to admit that they are living together as a couple would most certainly be lower than straight couples doing the same.

A straight couple living together does not face any repurcussions, as a gay couple would. So in many parts of the country, they would be far less likely to do so.....
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As you so kindly demonstrated though, the 40 page detailed questionnaire did not exactly put the issue of sexuality in the spotlight. :cof1:
 
uscitizen said:
So your are rooted in NJ ?


My ancestors came in thru VA in colonial times and never went above the Mason dixon line.
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My ancestors, the English side, came in through what is now Massachusetts, and founded Boston before moving on to settle (what became) Greenwich, CT. The Dutch side founded New Amsterdam. I have not a single ancestor who came through Ellis Island - they were all here before it was built.

And not a slave owner in the entire bunch.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
My ancestors, the English side, came in through what is now Massachusetts, and founded Boston before moving on to settle (what became) Greenwich, CT. The Dutch side founded New Amsterdam. I have not a single ancestor who came through Ellis Island - they were all here before it was built.

And not a slave owner in the entire bunch.
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My grandma and grandfather on my dad's side, came over from Ireland, through Ellis Island. My grandfather was fleeing some consequences of "the troubles".

On my mom's side, it was my great-grandmother and great-grandfather who came over from Italy. They settled in Brooklyn and would have children who became active communists there. I have a great-uncle's diary, and boy, was that a great read. Total activist/communist.
 
I guess per the census and two people of the same sex living in at same address are Gay ?

I am having trouble figuring out how the census shows gay people but does not ask if they are gay.
 
So how many college roomies are gay then ? You have never lived with another guy SG ?
Your logic is flawed and full of assumptions.
 
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