Noncooperation With Congress? Yeah, Nixon Tried That. Didn't Work For Him Either.

P

PoliTalker

Diversity Makes Greatness
The power of impeachment lies with the House.

It is not up to the executive to decide how impeachment is supposed to go.

The power lies with the House. That's in the Constitution. The House has no Rules requiring a floor vote.

And there is no court to go to about this. (Trump's favorite recourse to get his way.)

Nixon tried not cooperating with the House. Nixon also had articles against him for obstructing the Impeachment Inquiry, in addition to Watergate.

Trump is going to have articles against him for obstructing the House Impeachment Inquiry, in addition to Abuse of office and Violation of Oath of office, over the Ukraine Affair.

Keep it up, Mr. President. You're just digging yourself in deeper.
 
The parallels to the Nixon impeachment grow by the day.

There was a reason so many Republicans were so reluctant to get behind Trump in the first place.
 
Since the Democrats as a Party declared themselves as actively 'Resistant' to anything and everything he does, no matter what, why would he cooperate? What incentive does he have? It's kind of silly to expect him to cooperate, especially when we all know if they vote for impeachment it will blow up in their faces like all of their previous claims and actions; the Senate is not going to remove him from office, and probably won't even pay any attention to the demand. They gave away 2020 to Trump with their open admission of favoring illegal aliens over citizens in their fake 'Debates' on national TV. One doesn't have to be a partisan to see the obvious here.
 
What will happen if this causes an investigation of Biden and his son, and we get to watch on live TV as Joe and his son take the 5th a hundred times over his visits to Red China and the Ukraine? With Giden already toast, they;re left with Warren now, and we know she can't win against Trump, and again only a deranged partisan would believe otherwise.
 
PoliTalker said:
The power of impeachment lies with the House.

It is not up to the executive to decide how impeachment is supposed to go.

The power lies with the House. That's in the Constitution. The House has no Rules requiring a floor vote.

And there is no court to go to about this. (Trump's favorite recourse to get his way.)

Nixon tried not cooperating with the House. Nixon also had articles against him for obstructing the Impeachment Inquiry, in addition to Watergate.

Trump is going to have articles against him for obstructing the House Impeachment Inquiry, in addition to Abuse of office and Violation of Oath of office, over the Ukraine Affair.

Keep it up, Mr. President. You're just digging yourself in deeper.
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This is why I say that muh constitution is a useless piece of paper. If the president doesn't want to follow its rules, who is going to make him?
 
PoliTalker said:
The parallels to the Nixon impeachment grow by the day.
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Wrong; this is NOTHING like Watergate. Watergate began with a crime and then a cover up. There is none here. It is a brain dead hack fishing expedition that for three years has come up with NOTHING and made the Party of the Jackass look like do-nothing fools.

PoliTalker said:
There was a reason so many Republicans were so reluctant to get behind Trump in the first place.
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Pegged the BS meter on this one. :palm:

BSMETER.gif
 
Chuck said:
Since the Democrats as a Party declared themselves as actively 'Resistant' to anything and everything he does, no matter what, why would he cooperate? What incentive does he have? It's kind of silly to expect him to cooperate, especially when we all know if they vote for impeachment it will blow up in their faces like all of their previous claims and actions; the Senate is not going to remove him from office, and probably won't even pay any attention to the demand. They gave away 2020 to Trump with their open admission of favoring illegal aliens over citizens in their fake 'Debates' on national TV. One doesn't have to be a partisan to see the obvious here.
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Chuck has a brain and gets it. Leftists, not so much. ;)
 
Hello Chuck,

Chuck said:
Since the Democrats as a Party declared themselves as actively 'Resistant' to anything and everything he does, no matter what,
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While some Democrats may have done that there is no such official party policy. Political extrapolations are unwise.

Chuck said:
why would he cooperate? What incentive does he have?
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Not incurring an impeachment simply because he defied Constitutional directives.

Chuck said:
It's kind of silly to expect him to cooperate, especially when we all know if they vote for impeachment it will blow up in their faces like all of their previous claims and actions;
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We know no such thing. Any speculations as to how this will play out are just that. Speculations.

Chuck said:
the Senate is not going to remove him from office,
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There is no such common knowledge. Trump himself is very worried about it. He is sending mixed messages as usual. There was an attempt to claim he was delighted and felt that it was sure to help him, but then there has also been a lot of tweeting and attacking others, lashing out at anyone he thinks may divert attention from his plight.

Chuck said:
and probably won't even pay any attention to the demand.
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McConnell has said the Senate will hold the trial if the House impeaches.

Chuck said:
They gave away 2020 to Trump with their open admission of favoring illegal aliens over citizens in their fake 'Debates' on national TV. One doesn't have to be a partisan to see the obvious here.
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Actually that messaging plays very well with a lot of people. Our fastest growing population sector is Hispanic. Republicans are losing the demographics over time. Xenophobia only plays to a shrinking mostly older mindset.
 
Hello Chuck,

Chuck said:
What will happen if this causes an investigation of Biden and his son, and we get to watch on live TV as Joe and his son take the 5th a hundred times over his visits to Red China and the Ukraine?
Click to expand...

I have zero doubt that if there was anything to investigate about Biden and or his son that team Trump would have already done so long ago. These efforts to try to dig up dirt from other nations strike me as desperation moves. Trump is without informed constraint, listens to nobody, his entire staff afraid to tell him what he doesn't want to hear. Those who have tried all got fired. He is left with a team of yes men. He does not get good advice, so he does whatever comes to mind, which is why he broke his oath of office by asking foreign nationals for help in his political pursuits.

Chuck said:
With Giden already toast, they;re left with Warren now, and we know she can't win against Trump, and again only a deranged partisan would believe otherwise.
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I heard that it has rarely happened that the leaders in the polls over a year out from an election eventually become the winner. How many times did the Republican poll leader swap? New candidates could even still enter the race. It is premature to count Biden out just yet, none the less. He is getting some favorable PR out of this whole Ukraine scandal, despite his mouth and questionable debate performances. The conspiracy theories Trump acted on were debunked before he bit on them. He wished they were true, placed his stake on it, and it appears to be a gambit which has failed.
 
Hello StoneByStone,

StoneByStone said:
This is why I say that muh constitution is a useless piece of paper. If the president doesn't want to follow its rules, who is going to make him?
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Congress. They actually have the power to have him physically dragged out of the White House if it comes to that.
 
Hello StoneByStone,

StoneByStone said:
Congress has almost 200 Republicans and they're going to defend Trump no matter what.
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I disagree. Trump will probably lose the impeachment vote in the House and it will get sent to the Senate. That much is fairly apparent.

As for the Senate, I have studied the positions and statements of all 53 Republican Senators and made estimations of their likely vote on conviction. Here are the results of my analysis of who might vote how on conviction of Trump:



NO:
Rick Scott FL
Mike Braun IN
Roger Wicker MS
Cindy Hyde-Smith MS
John Hoeven ND
Kevin Cramer ND
Marsha Blackburn TN
John Barrasso WY
Jim Risch ID
Rand Paul KY
Tom Cotton AR
John Thune SD
Lamar Alexander TN


YES:
Mitt Romney UT
Richard Burr NC
Susan Collins ME
Mike Lee UT
Lisa Murkowski AK
Martha McSally AZ
Cory Gardner CO
Marco Rubio FL
Todd Young IN
Joni Ernst IA
Jerry Moran KA
Ben Sasse NE
Rob Portman OH


MAYBE:
Richard Shelby AL
Mike Crapo ID
Bill Cassidy LA
John Kennedy LA
Josh Hawley MO
Thom Tillis NC
Tim Scott SC
Shelly Moore Capito WV
Mike Enzi WY
Dan Sullivan AK
Johnny Isakson GA
Pat Roberts KA
Steve Daines MT
Deb Fischer NE
Jim Inhofe OK
John Boozman AR
Mike Rounds SD
David Perdue GA
James Lankford OK
Ted Cruz TX
Chuck Grassley IA
Mitch McConnell KY
Ron Johnson WI
Lindsey Graham SC
Roy Blunt MO
John Cornyn TX
Pat Toomey PA

You can follow the process of how I arrived at these guesses at this thread:

Trump Is Just 6 Votes Away From Impeachment
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello StoneByStone,



I disagree. Trump will probably lose the impeachment vote in the House and it will get sent to the Senate. That much is fairly apparent.

As for the Senate, I have studied the positions and statements of all 53 Republican Senators and made estimations of their likely vote on conviction. Here are the results of my analysis of who might vote how on conviction of Trump:



NO:
Rick Scott FL
Mike Braun IN
Roger Wicker MS
Cindy Hyde-Smith MS
John Hoeven ND
Kevin Cramer ND
Marsha Blackburn TN
John Barrasso WY
Jim Risch ID
Rand Paul KY
Tom Cotton AR
John Thune SD
Lamar Alexander TN


YES:
Mitt Romney UT
Richard Burr NC
Susan Collins ME
Mike Lee UT
Lisa Murkowski AK
Martha McSally AZ
Cory Gardner CO
Marco Rubio FL
Todd Young IN
Joni Ernst IA
Jerry Moran KA
Ben Sasse NE
Rob Portman OH


MAYBE:
Richard Shelby AL
Mike Crapo ID
Bill Cassidy LA
John Kennedy LA
Josh Hawley MO
Thom Tillis NC
Tim Scott SC
Shelly Moore Capito WV
Mike Enzi WY
Dan Sullivan AK
Johnny Isakson GA
Pat Roberts KA
Steve Daines MT
Deb Fischer NE
Jim Inhofe OK
John Boozman AR
Mike Rounds SD
David Perdue GA
James Lankford OK
Ted Cruz TX
Chuck Grassley IA
Mitch McConnell KY
Ron Johnson WI
Lindsey Graham SC
Roy Blunt MO
John Cornyn TX
Pat Toomey PA

You can follow the process of how I arrived at these guesses at this thread:

Trump Is Just 6 Votes Away From Impeachment
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That's a whole lot of Maybes. And I doubt Marco Rubio has the balls to oppose Trump. Last I saw of him, he was claiming that Trump was just joking when he asked Ukraine and China to investigate Biden.
 
Chuck said:
Since the Democrats as a Party declared themselves as actively 'Resistant' to anything and everything he does, no matter what, why would he cooperate? What incentive does he have? It's kind of silly to expect him to cooperate, especially when we all know if they vote for impeachment it will blow up in their faces like all of their previous claims and actions; the Senate is not going to remove him from office, and probably won't even pay any attention to the demand. They gave away 2020 to Trump with their open admission of favoring illegal aliens over citizens in their fake 'Debates' on national TV. One doesn't have to be a partisan to see the obvious here.
Click to expand...

Dude, let me just give you a little advice that every officer of the law, every attorney General, every judge, and every jurist knows and fully well understands- IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE- DON"T HIDE ANYTHING- IF YOU DO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE- YOU WILL DAMN SURE TRY TO HIDE IT!

That is always the first sign of guilt- when you obstruct justice by intentionally withholding information pertinent to the investigation.

In this case, even though the obstruction of justice is clear and obvious and an impeachable offense in itself, there are so many people connected to the corruption of this Administration, there are plenty of people still available to corroborate the testimonies of others, and provide additional testimony in the case.
 
Hello StoneByStone,

StoneByStone said:
That's a whole lot of Maybes. And I doubt Marco Rubio has the balls to oppose Trump. Last I saw of him, he was claiming that Trump was just joking when he asked Ukraine and China to investigate Biden.
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I don't think Rubio is forgetting the things Trump said about him in the 2016 campaign.

Yes, there are a lot of Maybes. Which means nothing is certain about how the Senate will vote on conviction.

There are 13 yes and 13 no votes. With 27 Maybes that leaves things pretty uncertain.

The Yes votes only need 7 of the Maybes to convict.

The No votes will need 21 of the Maybes to acquit.

It doesn't look good for Trump.
 
It should be interesting to note that while the House conducted the Impeachment Inquiry into Richard Nixon, he had far more support at that point than Trump does right now. A relatively small proportion of voters said Nixon should be removed from office during his Impeachment Inquiry. Trump already has far more people who believe he should be removed, with 51% now saying he should go.
 
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