Obama says Police acted stupidly!

Dungheap said:
Check Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada.
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first, Hiibel only is good in Nevada because it was the stop and identify statute that was challenged.

second, if the police have RAS and are actually investigating a crime, you do not have to show ID, but you at least have to identify yourself with a name/address/or some other verifiable means to identify yourself with. If the police have no RAS to stop you, you do not have to produce ID whatsoever, nor do you even have to provide your name. If the police are not investigating a crime and detain you for not providing an ID, you will be receiving a decent settlement later.
 
Superfreak said:
2) As Dung pointed out, the Supreme Court already ruled on this topic. They only have to have 'reasonable suspicion' in order to arrest the subject.
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this is not completely correct. Police must have reasonable suspicion to detain you for an investigation. They cannot arrest you with 'reasonable supsicion', for an arrest, it takes probable cause.
 
Jarod said:
He should not have weighed in on an issue he himself admitted he does not know about.

Maybe a more fair answer would have been, I dont know the specifics of this situation, but I am against racial profiling and if thats what happened, I am against it.
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Well, he currently is pulling the "gee, I could have phrased it better" schtick. Which to me is a cop out. He was right on the money, because no cop worth his salt arrests a guy in his own house because the guy is a bit mouthy. That's why the cop wanted Gates to step outside....his charge of "disorderly conduct" wouldn't fly with a man inside his own house. If Gates was indeed subject to arrest under those conditions, he NEVER would have made it indoors, as any good cop will tell you.

Well, those charges have been dropped, Obama has made moves to calm down all the jittery folk and road block the neocon noise machine. Now there's just to see if Gates will sue and it will get to court.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Well, he currently is pulling the "gee, I could have phrased it better" schtick. Which to me is a cop out. He was right on the money, because no cop worth his salt arrests a guy in his own house because the guy is a bit mouthy. That's why the cop wanted Gates to step outside....his charge of "disorderly conduct" wouldn't fly with a man inside his own house. If Gates was indeed subject to arrest under those conditions, he NEVER would have made it indoors, as any good cop will tell you.

Well, those charges have been dropped, Obama has made moves to calm down all the jittery folk and road block the neocon noise machine. Now there's just to see if Gates will sue and it will get to court.
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go news for you. Obama messed up speaking up on this without knowing what he was talking about. Also, the more that comes out about this, the Prof is the one who appears to have screwed up bigtime. I see a defamation suit filed by the arresting officer soon.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
go news for you. Obama messed up speaking up on this without knowing what he was talking about. Also, the more that comes out about this, the Prof is the one who appears to have screwed up bigtime. I see a defamation suit filed by the arresting officer soon.
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Here you have a classic case of class bigotry: an elitist college professor showing disrespect to the local police who were trying to protect his home. The elitist is black and immediately tosses out the race card. Too often that ends any sensible debate but in this case the white officer is certifiably non-racist; he teaches a class how to avoid racial profiling and is on record for attempting to save the life of a high profile black athlete, with moth-to-mouth resuscitation no less! Obama presumable knows the guy and immediately takes the elitist's side, hence stepping into the biggest pile of shit of his career and possibly ending forever the Democrat minions' claim of him as the "racial healer".

This event was really made to order to skewer Obama- so much so that I'll predict that some liberal will claim that it was a set-up.
 
Jarod said:
If the police have "resaonable suspision" that a crime has or will be commmited they can ask or briefly detain you. If you refuse to provide information, and they do not otherwise have probable cause to show you have committed a crime... they are SOL.

That does not mean that many dont just arrest you anyway then lie about it.
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In this case, there was a 911 call... that established a probable cause for the officer to investigate, and reasonable suspicion of any persons found at the premises. Had the suspect refused to give the officer identification, he could have been arrested for suspicion of burglary and held until things were sorted out. After giving the officer his ID, he should have kept his racist mouth shut and waited for the officer to confirm the information, then it would have all been over. He obviously didn't do that, he got belligerent with the officer who was merely doing what is necessary to clear the man and end the episode. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, which is a legitimate crime, and the professor was legitimately guilty of. There was nothing "racist" about this whatsoever, except for the attitude of the black professor, who made it about race instead of understanding the officer was just trying to do his job.

Look... Rodney King... you have a video of LA police officers beating the shit out of the guy... THAT is racist! THAT is a deplorable act perpetrated by bad cops who singled a black guy out to beat. This wasn't a Rodney King incident. The white arresting officer just so happened to be accompanied by a black officer, who supports and backs his partners actions completely. The officer who was falsely accused of racism, actually taught a class in racial profiling, and being he lived in Cambridge, Mass, there is about a 90% chance he was a liberal democrat who voted for Obama!

Now you moron liberals can sit here and pretend the professor didn't have to show his ID or step outside his house, and you can lie about how he was arrested for breaking into his own house, but you don't have a clue about what happened or what the law is. If police had to adhere to your cockamamie principles, NO criminal would EVER get arrested... they would simply refuse to give ID, or refuse to come out of their house! And IF that was the law, the police couldn't do a damn thing about it. The fact is, it's NOT the law, never has been the law, and won't ever be the law... else we will have complete lawlessness and anarchy!
 
SmarterThanYou said:
this is not completely correct. Police must have reasonable suspicion to detain you for an investigation. They cannot arrest you with 'reasonable supsicion', for an arrest, it takes probable cause.
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If the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that it is constitutional to do so, then they most certainly can. In any state. The Supreme Court rulings do not only affect the state the case originate in.

The Supreme Court ruled that they can ARREST you for refusing to show an ID for only reasonable suspicion, let alone probable cause.
 
Dixie said:
Look... Rodney King... you have a video of LA police officers beating the shit out of the guy... THAT is racist! THAT is a deplorable act perpetrated by bad cops who singled a black guy out to beat. This wasn't a Rodney King incident. The white arresting officer just so happened to be accompanied by a black officer, who supports and backs his partners actions completely. The officer who was falsely accused of racism, actually taught a class in racial profiling, and being he lived in Cambridge, Mass, there is about a 90% chance he was a liberal democrat who voted for Obama!

!
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Ok, I will probably take a lot of flack for this, but even in the Rodney King case, I dont think race was an issue. I think it was the case of an individual who failed to comply for whatever reason and it pissed the cops off. They obviously went way way way too far in beating him like that and they broke the law in doing so.

That said, there were two other black men who were untouched, cuffed and placed in the police cars during that incident. If the cops were truly racist, why did they only beat on King and not the other two?
 
You know what is amazing, how all you big tough guys claim you would act, but in reality, if some cop came and got into your face because you were in your own house and he didn't think so, you would go crazy.

I would be outraged.

Think about it. I have had to break into my house several times and if someone had called the cops, and they confronted me in my own home, after I told them I was the home owner, I would go off, verbally, like the Prof did. I would probably be arrested, like the Prof.

Now you can all go back to what I would do...
 
Southern Man said:
Here you have a classic case of class bigotry: an elitist college professor showing disrespect to the local police who were trying to protect his home. The elitist is black and immediately tosses out the race card. Too often that ends any sensible debate but in this case the white officer is certifiably non-racist; he teaches a class how to avoid racial profiling and is on record for attempting to save the life of a high profile black athlete, with moth-to-mouth resuscitation no less! Obama presumable knows the guy and immediately takes the elitist's side, hence stepping into the biggest pile of shit of his career and possibly ending forever the Democrat minions' claim of him as the "racial healer".

This event was really made to order to skewer Obama- so much so that I'll predict that some liberal will claim that it was a set-up.
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Why is it that it is always the right talking about the race card that the left has supposedly shown? I believe they talk about it more than it is ever used, thus perpetuating the race card...
 
SmarterThanYou said:
go news for you. Obama messed up speaking up on this without knowing what he was talking about. Also, the more that comes out about this, the Prof is the one who appears to have screwed up bigtime. I see a defamation suit filed by the arresting officer soon.
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I hope he files a defamation suit. I'm not with Gates on this one.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
go news for you. Obama messed up speaking up on this without knowing what he was talking about. Also, the more that comes out about this, the Prof is the one who appears to have screwed up bigtime. I see a defamation suit filed by the arresting officer soon.
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You need to change news sources THINK for a moment! A man in the comfort of his own home can mouth off all he wants SO LONG AS HE IS NOT IMPEDING THE INQUIRY/INVESTIGATION INTO A CRIME, OR IS DEMONSTRATING DANGEROUSLY (TO HIMSELF OR OTHERS) BEHAVIOR. All the cop has to do is just LEAVE, because IT WAS ESTABLISHED THAT THERE WAS NO CRIME.

But this cop didn't like to be mouthed off to, so he continually wants Gates to step outside his house....AFTER GATES GAVE PROPER ID INSIDE TO THE COP.

Obama had the info and made the right call...what's pissing folks off is that the scenario played out exactly in his favor..because the cops dropped the charges. What people should also remember is that Obama didn't just interject this stuff into his press conference....HE WAS ASKED A QUESTION. I would dearly love to see this cop try lodge a defamation suit...given that Obama NEVER specifically mentioned him. See, lawyers love to play word games like that. The only person who has a shot at a lawsuit is Gates, as he claims the cop didn't give him his badge number and full ID.
 
Superfreak said:
If the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that it is constitutional to do so, then they most certainly can. In any state. The Supreme Court rulings do not only affect the state the case originate in.
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this is not how the case decision was written. Hiibel challenged the Nevada S&I statute, not a federal law, therefore, the supreme court ruled that Nevadas S&I statute does not violate the 4th Amendment. Another states S&I statute might violate it because it's written differenty, but hasn't been challenged yet.
 
Superfreak said:
Incorrect. When the Supreme Court of the United States makes a ruling on it, that is precedence for the entire country. Not just one state.
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this cannot be SF. what you're saying is that if the supreme court rules that if a california law is not unconstitutional in one state, that the california state law then applies to all 50 states. That's a real funky way of incorporation.
 
froggie said:
Why is it that it is always the right talking about the race card that the left has supposedly shown? I believe they talk about it more than it is ever used, thus perpetuating the race card...
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Pointing out the crime perpetuates the crime? How so?
 
froggie said:
You know what is amazing, how all you big tough guys claim you would act, but in reality, if some cop came and got into your face because you were in your own house and he didn't think so, you would go crazy.

I would be outraged.

Think about it. I have had to break into my house several times and if someone had called the cops, and they confronted me in my own home, after I told them I was the home owner, I would go off, verbally, like the Prof did. I would probably be arrested, like the Prof.

Now you can all go back to what I would do...
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According to the witness, the cop didn't "get in his face". *shrug*
 
froggie said:
You know what is amazing, how all you big tough guys claim you would act, but in reality, if some cop came and got into your face because you were in your own house and he didn't think so, you would go crazy.

I would be outraged.

Think about it. I have had to break into my house several times and if someone had called the cops, and they confronted me in my own home, after I told them I was the home owner, I would go off, verbally, like the Prof did. I would probably be arrested, like the Prof.

Now you can all go back to what I would do...
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It has nothing to do with being tough. It has to do with respect. I respect the fact that cops are willing to put their lives on the line for the rest of us every day. I respect the fact that they take a lot of shit almost every time they are called in and yet for the most part they don't snap. I respect the fact that if someone thought someone was breaking into my home and called the cops that they would bother to come and check. If it was me in this situation, I would have respected the fact that they were doing their JOB. I would have shown them my ID and thanked them for making sure my home was secure.

But that is just me. I know others feel 'outraged' that they would dare actually do their job.

To be clear, I also understand the difference between a white man such as myself being in such a situation and a black man being in it. I understand the skepticism and distrust the black community has towards the police. But the cycle will never end if when the cops are doing their job they have to put up with being berated like the professor did to them.

I want them to release those tapes so that we can hear the conversation and put an end to all the speculation.

Just my opinion.... take it for what its worth.
 
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