Open Carry

WinterBorn said:
You wouldn't wear a seatbelt if the law didn't tell you to do so? So the gov't has to make you do the smart thing?

You don't have smoke detectors in your home? Are you a fool? Or are you just making this claim because you want to argue someone's point?
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Right now probably 90% of my driving is on surface streeets between my job 12 miles away and back, so no, I wouldn't wear a seatbelt if the Government didn't make me. Now highway driving is a different story.

Nope...no smoke detectors.
 
WinterBorn said:
The cops who did this are a tiny minority of those working in law enforcement. To use this sort of extreme example as a reason to make judgement calls against the millions who choose to own & carry firearms is ridiculous.
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First I have to correct a mistake; Amadou Diallo was shot AT 41 times. he was hit 19 times.

Officers told him to stop, he went into his pocket to get his wallet, one of the "brave" officers shouted "GUN" and they opened up on the guy. He had no gun.

That is a textbook example of cowardly overreaction.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Right now probably 90% of my driving is on surface streeets between my job 12 miles away and back, so no, I wouldn't wear a seatbelt if the Government didn't make me. Now highway driving is a different story.

Nope...no smoke detectors.
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Seatbelts save lives on short trips too. If you are getting above 25mph a seatbelt will save your live if you are involved in an accident.

Some detectors are just smart additions to any residence.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
First I have to correct a mistake; Amadou Diallo was shot AT 41 times. he was hit 19 times.

Officers told him to stop, he went into his pocket to get his wallet, one of the "brave" officers shouted "GUN" and they opened up on the guy. He had no gun.

That is a textbook example of cowardly overreaction.
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If this is your complaint, then you truly are the dumbass that you've tried so hard to be.

GEE, I was alsways taught that STOP means STOP.
I guess we should blame his upbringing.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
If this is your complaint, then you truly are the dumbass that you've tried so hard to be.

GEE, I was alsways taught that STOP means STOP.
I guess we should blame his upbringing.
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Right, and not immediately doing exactly what the police tell you, whether their demand is warranted or not, gives the police license to execute anyone.

No trial necessary.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Right, and not immediately doing exactly what the police tell you, whether their demand is warranted or not, gives the police license to execute anyone.

No trial necessary.
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I'm not that big a defender of cops after some punk ass SFPD jackass buried my face into the concrete for no reason and send me to the hospital. But I also had a guy I've known since childhood who is a cop basically executed on the streets in Oakland (he was one of the 4 officers killed in the shootings that made national news) recently so I respect the dangers they face.

If a cop thinks you might be a threat and tells you to put your hands up and not reach into your pants its not a real wise time to think I'm going to tell authority to go fuck itself and put my hands in my pants anyway.

I'm not justifying cops shooting an innocent person but I know its a lot easier to arm chair quarterback when you're not the one whose life is potentially on the line.
 
cawacko said:
I'm not that big a defender of cops after some punk ass SFPD jackass buried my face into the concrete for no reason and send me to the hospital. But I also had a guy I've known since childhood who is a cop basically executed on the streets in Oakland (he was one of the 4 officers killed in the shootings that made national news) recently so I respect the dangers they face.

If a cop thinks you might be a threat and tells you to put your hands up and not reach into your pants its not a real wise time to think I'm going to tell authority to go fuck itself and put my hands in my pants anyway.

I'm not justifying cops shooting an innocent person but I know its a lot easier to arm chair quarterback when you're not the one whose life is potentially on the line.
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with all due respect to the friend that you lost, wearing a badge doesn't give one the power to give unlawful orders. It's a sad state of affairs in this country when the courts give immunity to police officers for killing civilians as soon as they utter the words 'i was in fear of my life', yet will execute said civilian if they kill a cop for the same reason.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
with all due respect to the friend that you lost, wearing a badge doesn't give one the power to give unlawful orders. It's a sad state of affairs in this country when the courts give immunity to police officers for killing civilians as soon as they utter the words 'i was in fear of my life', yet will execute said civilian if they kill a cop for the same reason.
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I have known many law enforcement officers throughout my life. A few were arrogant assholes. But most are genuine good people doing a difficult job.

We have to have some sort of law or we slip into anarchy. Those who gun down innocent civilians are an extreme minority.
 
WinterBorn said:
I have known many law enforcement officers throughout my life. A few were arrogant assholes. But most are genuine good people doing a difficult job.
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I would agree. the problem we run in to is the good ones don't police the bad ones for fear of crossing that thin blue line.

WinterBorn said:
We have to have some sort of law or we slip into anarchy. Those who gun down innocent civilians are an extreme minority.
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but those who abuse that authority by bullying civilians just because are a larger minority and more prevalent.
 
cawacko said:
I'm not that big a defender of cops after some punk ass SFPD jackass buried my face into the concrete for no reason and send me to the hospital. But I also had a guy I've known since childhood who is a cop basically executed on the streets in Oakland (he was one of the 4 officers killed in the shootings that made national news) recently so I respect the dangers they face.

If a cop thinks you might be a threat and tells you to put your hands up and not reach into your pants its not a real wise time to think I'm going to tell authority to go fuck itself and put my hands in my pants anyway.

I'm not justifying cops shooting an innocent person but I know its a lot easier to arm chair quarterback when you're not the one whose life is potentially on the line.
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According to an article I found:

"Police officers Edward McMellon, Sean Carroll, Kenneth Boss and Richard Murphy passed by in a Ford Taurus when they thought Diallo matched the description of a (since-captured) serial rapist and approached him. The officers were in plain clothes. The officers claimed that they loudly identified themselves as NYPD officers and that Diallo ran up the outside steps toward his apartment house doorway at their approach, ignoring their orders to stop and "show his hands"."

How was the murdered man supposed to know for SURE whether the men claiming to be police were even real cops?

Are you going to immediately comply if four men in street clothes claim they are the police?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
According to an article I found:

"Police officers Edward McMellon, Sean Carroll, Kenneth Boss and Richard Murphy passed by in a Ford Taurus when they thought Diallo matched the description of a (since-captured) serial rapist and approached him. The officers were in plain clothes. The officers claimed that they loudly identified themselves as NYPD officers and that Diallo ran up the outside steps toward his apartment house doorway at their approach, ignoring their orders to stop and "show his hands"."

How was the murdered man supposed to know for SURE whether the men claiming to be police were even real cops?

Are you going to immediately comply if four men in street clothes claim they are the police?
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that is one of the main reasons why they don't let common citizens carry guns, so that their police officers don't have to worry about being shot at when abusing the populace.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Are you saying that telling someone to STOP is unwarranted??
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a police officer must have reasonable suspicion to stop someone for an investigation. That reasonable suspicion must be tied to articulate suspicion that said individual has committed a crime, is committing a crime, or is about to commit a crime. absent that reasonable articulate suspicion, a Police officer telling someone to stop must be a consensual stop. Do YOU think your stop is consensual if a thug with a badge yells at you to stop?
 
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