USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
How is it going to help, in the slightest?
Pat Toomey: Background Checks Died Because GOP Didn't Want To Help Obama
- Thread starter Bfgrn
- Start date
How is it going to help, in the slightest?
Steelplate
New member
So then BOTH people would be committing a crime...right? There would be no more "I didn't know he was a felon"...that won't fly.
Did you not read the stats from the ATF that another poster put up?
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Right after you answer the question that you've been running from. criminal.
How is the extended background checks going to help?
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Odd how you keep repeating the same liberal mantra and yet, you fail to provide anything of substance.
But then; that is how criminals usually are and it explains you, to a "T".
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
You haven't provided an answer.
What you have done is dance around and keep repeating the same old liberal mantra.
Why does calling you a criminal bother you.
You are a criminal; because you admitted to smuggling guns into Mexico, ILLEGALLY.
Bfgrn
New member
Facts about the gun show loophole:
- 30% of trafficking: One ATF study found gun shows involved with over 10,000 trafficked guns a year – about 30% of all criminal trafficking.
- New York City Investigation of Gun Shows: 35 out of 47 sellers approached by investigators completed sales to people who appeared to be criminals or straw purchasers.
- Gun Shows linked to Columbine: All four guns used in the Columbine school massacre were bought at gun shows without background checks.
- Gun Shows Linked to Terrorists: In 2001 in Michigan, Ali Boumelhem was caught attempting to ship to Hezbollah a shipment containing ammunition, shotguns, parts of AR-15 assault rifles, flash suppressors, and speed loaders.[iv] He and his brother Mohamed had purchased the arsenal of weapons from Michigan gun shows.[v] Other investigations have linked gun shows to potential terrorists in Florida and Texas.[vi]
- Gun shows linked to Mexican drug-trafficking cartels: ATF reported that between 2004 and 2006, the Phoenix field division conducted surveillance operations at eight gun shows in Phoenix, Yuma, and Tucson, Arizona, and Albuquerque, New Mexico. Suspected traffickers were later stopped at the border. ATF reported “those operations alone resulted in 13 arrests, 3 convictions, and 193 seizures of illegally purchased firearms.”[vii] ATF Assistant Director for Field Operations William Hoover said in Congressional testimony on February 7, 2008 that “the increased incidence of firearms trafficking to Mexico (from the U.S.) is influenced by,” in part, “a readily accessible source of firearms and ammunition originating in mostly the secondary market such as gun shows, flea markets and private sales.”[viii]
- Numerous violations: The Treasury and Justice Departments issued a report in 1999 finding “a wide variety of violations occurring at gun shows and substantial numbers of firearms associated with gun shows being used in drug crimes and crimes of violence, as well as being passed illegally to juveniles.”[ix]
- Gun shows were tied to a broad range of violations, including straw purchases and the sale of kits to convert legal guns into illegal machine guns.
- Their report reviewed 314 of those departments’ own investigations related to gun shows, involving over 54,000 guns, between 1991 and 1998.
Solution: Require occasional sellers to run instant background checks.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Licensed dealers are already required to conduct background checks, so how is this going to change anything?
By the way, if 30% were bought illegally, then how many convictions have been made on those supposed "3000 sales"?
I love they way they threw in the packpeddle of "appeared to be criminals or straw purchasers"; ie: we're not sure, but it LOOKED like it.
Were Ali Boumelhem and his brother Mohamed restricted from purchasing firearms?
Were those 193 purchased firearms, that were being attempted to smuggle into Mexico; bought illegally or did the purchases become illegal, because they were attempting to smuggle them into Mexico?
Also; how many of the sellers faced charges for illegally selling the 193 firearms, or was it discovered that they had been sold legally?
(MM might want to take special notice of this one)
And yet again; were the firearms that are mentioned sold illegally, from the gun show(s), and if so, how many sellers were charged?
It's not against the law to have the parts to convert a gun from semi to full and it's not against the law to own a silencer. It becomes against the law, when you use them or put them to use.
How is having the occasional seller conducting a back ground check, going to change one thing; regarding gun shows.
Gun Show Rules and Gun Laws
Guide Extra: 6/20/99
Selling guns at gun shows has gotten a lot of press lately. Is it really easy to buy and sell guns at a gun shows? Judge for yourself. Read these typical rules for gun sales at gun shows and some of the current laws regarding sales of firearms and ammunition.
(Unlawful Acts involving the use, sale, and possession of firearms are listed under Title 18, Section 922 of the US Code.)
Gun Control Online Debate Read or join in a free online forum dedicated to the gun control.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun and Knife Show Rules
1.All guns must be unloaded, tied and the magazines removed.
THIS INCLUDES FIREARMS OF CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDERS.
2.All ammo must be in sealed containers.
3.No loaded magazines allowed in the show.
4.No cameras allowed in the show.
5.Carts, dollys and baby strollers used to carry trade items cannot be brought into the show except by dealers.
6.Police officers who are in uniform or who are displaying badges have free admission.
7.All Federal, State and Local laws must be obeyed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of the Treasury Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Important Notice to Dealers and
Other Participants at this Gun Show
This NOTICE applies to activities permitted at bona fide gun shows, as defined in Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 178.100.
A flea market is not a gun show!
DEALERS LICENSED IN THIS STATE:
MUST comply with all record keeping requirements of ATF regulations concerning acquisition and disposition of
firearms, especially recording the place of sale.
MAY dispose of handguns to residents of this state only.
MAY dispose of longguns to residents of any state, provided the laws of both states are complied with.
MAY dispose of firearms to any Federal firearm licensee(FFL).
MAY acquire firearms from any FFL licensed in this state, or from any non-licensed individual.
CANNOT dispose of handguns to out of state residents.
DEALERS NOT LICENSED IN THIS STATE:
MUST comply with all ATF record keeping requirements concerning acquisitions of firearms.
MAY acquire firearms from any FFL licensed in this state and from any non-licensed individual.
CANNOT make sales of firearms with delivery, to anyone, even to or through an FFL licensed in this state.
Can display and take orders only.
NON-LICENSED RESIDENTS OF THIS STATE:
MAY acquire long guns and handguns from FFLs licensed in this state.
MAY dispose of firearms to any FFL.
MAY acquire from and dispose of personal firearms to non-licensed residents of this state.
CANNOT acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed resident of any other state.
NON-LICENSED RESIDENTS FROM ANOTHER STATE:
MAY dispose of firearms to any FFL.
MAY acquire longguns only from FFLs licensed in this state, provided the laws of both states are complied with.
CANNOT acquire handguns.
CANNOT dispose of firearms to non-licensed individuals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A "Gun Show" as defined by Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 178.100. is...
"(b) A gun show or an event is a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization, devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community."
Current Firearm Laws
FFL: An "FFL" is a Federal Firearms License. A valid FFL must be held by anyone selling, manufacturing, or importing guns, ammunition, and certain gun parts. The laws and fees for getting and holding an FFL are found in Title 18, Section 923 of the US Code. Firearm-related laws are listed in Title 18, Chapter 44, US Code and enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
Note: The gun show rules above are those of the Dallas Arms Collectors Association, Inc. Remember that at any gun show, state and local firearms laws will also apply.
So what is it that you want to change and how is it going to help?
By the way; you really need to educate yourself on what constitutes a loophole, instead of just parroting the liberal talking point(s).
Bfgrn
New member
Licensed dealers are already required to conduct background checks, so how is this going to change anything?
By the way, if 30% were bought illegally, then how many convictions have been made on those supposed "3000 sales"?
I love they way they threw in the packpeddle of "appeared to be criminals or straw purchasers"; ie: we're not sure, but it LOOKED like it.
Were Ali Boumelhem and his brother Mohamed restricted from purchasing firearms?
Were those 193 purchased firearms, that were being attempted to smuggle into Mexico; bought illegally or did the purchases become illegal, because they were attempting to smuggle them into Mexico?
Also; how many of the sellers faced charges for illegally selling the 193 firearms, or was it discovered that they had been sold legally?
(MM might want to take special notice of this one)
And yet again; were the firearms that are mentioned sold illegally, from the gun show(s), and if so, how many sellers were charged?
It's not against the law to have the parts to convert a gun from semi to full and it's not against the law to own a silencer. It becomes against the law, when you use them or put them to use.
How is having the occasional seller conducting a back ground check, going to change one thing; regarding gun shows.
Gun Show Rules and Gun Laws
Guide Extra: 6/20/99
Selling guns at gun shows has gotten a lot of press lately. Is it really easy to buy and sell guns at a gun shows? Judge for yourself. Read these typical rules for gun sales at gun shows and some of the current laws regarding sales of firearms and ammunition.
(Unlawful Acts involving the use, sale, and possession of firearms are listed under Title 18, Section 922 of the US Code.)
Gun Control Online Debate Read or join in a free online forum dedicated to the gun control.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun and Knife Show Rules
1.All guns must be unloaded, tied and the magazines removed.
THIS INCLUDES FIREARMS OF CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDERS.
2.All ammo must be in sealed containers.
3.No loaded magazines allowed in the show.
4.No cameras allowed in the show.
5.Carts, dollys and baby strollers used to carry trade items cannot be brought into the show except by dealers.
6.Police officers who are in uniform or who are displaying badges have free admission.
7.All Federal, State and Local laws must be obeyed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of the Treasury Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Important Notice to Dealers and
Other Participants at this Gun Show
This NOTICE applies to activities permitted at bona fide gun shows, as defined in Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 178.100.
A flea market is not a gun show!
DEALERS LICENSED IN THIS STATE:
MUST comply with all record keeping requirements of ATF regulations concerning acquisition and disposition of
firearms, especially recording the place of sale.
MAY dispose of handguns to residents of this state only.
MAY dispose of longguns to residents of any state, provided the laws of both states are complied with.
MAY dispose of firearms to any Federal firearm licensee(FFL).
MAY acquire firearms from any FFL licensed in this state, or from any non-licensed individual.
CANNOT dispose of handguns to out of state residents.
DEALERS NOT LICENSED IN THIS STATE:
MUST comply with all ATF record keeping requirements concerning acquisitions of firearms.
MAY acquire firearms from any FFL licensed in this state and from any non-licensed individual.
CANNOT make sales of firearms with delivery, to anyone, even to or through an FFL licensed in this state.
Can display and take orders only.
NON-LICENSED RESIDENTS OF THIS STATE:
MAY acquire long guns and handguns from FFLs licensed in this state.
MAY dispose of firearms to any FFL.
MAY acquire from and dispose of personal firearms to non-licensed residents of this state.
CANNOT acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed resident of any other state.
NON-LICENSED RESIDENTS FROM ANOTHER STATE:
MAY dispose of firearms to any FFL.
MAY acquire longguns only from FFLs licensed in this state, provided the laws of both states are complied with.
CANNOT acquire handguns.
CANNOT dispose of firearms to non-licensed individuals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A "Gun Show" as defined by Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 178.100. is...
"(b) A gun show or an event is a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization, devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community."
Current Firearm Laws
FFL: An "FFL" is a Federal Firearms License. A valid FFL must be held by anyone selling, manufacturing, or importing guns, ammunition, and certain gun parts. The laws and fees for getting and holding an FFL are found in Title 18, Section 923 of the US Code. Firearm-related laws are listed in Title 18, Chapter 44, US Code and enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
Note: The gun show rules above are those of the Dallas Arms Collectors Association, Inc. Remember that at any gun show, state and local firearms laws will also apply.
So what is it that you want to change and how is it going to help?
By the way; you really need to educate yourself on what constitutes a loophole, instead of just parroting the liberal talking point(s).
CLOSE the gun show loophole.
Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.
Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year. But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood.
“Today, private parties sometimes sell large numbers of new and used firearms while claiming hobbyist status and exemption from the requirements imposed on licensed retailers,” according to Inside Gun Shows: What Goes on When Everybody Thinks Nobody’s Watching, a 2009 report from the Violence Prevention Research Program at University of California Davis.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Still not a loophole; because the required background checks were never meant to be conducted for private sales.
But you go ahead and keep right on complaining, about something that doesn't exist.
Bfgrn
New member
Still not a loophole; because the required background checks were never meant to be conducted for private sales.
But you go ahead and keep right on complaining, about something that doesn't exist.
Are you THAT fucking stupid, or are you THAT fucking dishonest? Which one is it?
Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year.
The LOOPHOLE IS BORN:
But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
the whole failure in your line of thought is that the framers wrote the constitution restricting government with the INDIVIDUAL liberties in mind.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
constitutionality doesn't stop at the USSC. WE are the final check. If the government decides to ignore it's limits, or heeds to the cowardice of the majority, WE still have a couple of checks left. Jury box and cartridge box.
Steelplate
New member
Violence.... fuck you....if you think the inconvenience if filling out a form is worth killing for. Then bring it on.... all you militia fucks. Get it the fuck over with. I'm so sick and tired of your childish whining...your cowardly behavior, your backwards ignorance and prejudices.... the world will be a better place without you all....so just fucking do it already.... get out from behind your keyboard, you lazy fuck and start exercising those 2nd Amendment solutions.
You won't....because you're a lazy fucking cowardly slug with a spine of rubber.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
there is no loophole
SmarterthanYou
rebel
do you need a whambulance now?
Steelplate
New member
No....just issuing a challenge.... c'mon pussy....you are so anti-establishment...stop bawling about shit and do something....hell according to you, you have 11 million people in your side... round 'em up and let's fucking settle this bullshit.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
The person being dishonest and stupid,l would be you; because you left out the part where the 1968 act primarily focuses on regulating interstate commerce in firearms by generally prohibiting interstate firearms transfers except among licensed manufacturers, dealers and importers.
Then is was CHANGED and ergo: You don't agree, so you've decided it's a loophole.
By your "reasoning", the Nineteenth Amendment is a loophole to the constitution.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Please stop stamping your feet, while throwing your hissyfit.
You're causing the monitor to shake.
Thank you