Pat Toomey: Background Checks Died Because GOP Didn't Want To Help Obama

If she is THAT concerned (an abused wife is trying to leave her abusive cop husband, but in her terror she wants to buy a gun) "for her safety", a gun is FALSE security. Her best avenue is a LEGAL one.

It is much more likely that if she brings a gun into a domestic confrontation, it will end with that gun being discharged and they will carry HER out in a body bag. And if she is lucky enough to beat the odds, SHE will be facing a charge of HOMICIDE.

Turn off the TV detective shows and join the REAL world.

This is really nonsense. The cops can do nothing until orders are violated, and almost always when it is too late. Her best chance is to use both, there is nothing inherently evil in being prepared for the worst that can happen in any given situation.

The idea that buying a gun means that she/he would no longer use the legal system is a false dilemma, and one of the worst arguments I have seen propounded here to date. Her/his absolute best bet would be to do both. The idea that because she is a woman that the only outcome would be bad and/or she would be killed regardless is a baseless dismissal of her as a person. This is the same stupid argument as that idiot democrat representative here in CO who said that if college women were allowed to arm themselves innocent men would die because they were so afraid they'd just start shooting and kill men indiscriminately; that they wouldn't be able to tell what a rapist is...
 
And BTW....I agree on Iraq. Hell, we killed 100k of Iraqi CHILDREN just in sanctions alone.

But hey....don't let that get in the way of a good rant.
 
Yeah, I don't know why I try to educate them. I am done here.

It's why I resisted posting any links on this yesterday. I knew what they wanted. They don't actually care. They want you to link it so they can pretend they found a loophole. There are no loopholes, but it's ironic because these are the same people who can't see actual loopholes in the gun laws! It's a waste of my time. Or of anyone's.


http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...he-Nerve-To-Shoot-a-Gun&p=1209089#post1209089
 
Total BULLSHIT! You gun lickers won't even admit there is a gun show loophole. If the NRA told you turds were hot dogs, you morons would open a turd stand.

What is this loophole then? Explain it. What occurs at gun shows that only occurs there?
 
If she is THAT concerned (an abused wife is trying to leave her abusive cop husband, but in her terror she wants to buy a gun) "for her safety", a gun is FALSE security. Her best avenue is a LEGAL one.

It is much more likely that if she brings a gun into a domestic confrontation, it will end with that gun being discharged and they will carry HER out in a body bag. And if she is lucky enough to beat the odds, SHE will be facing a charge of HOMICIDE.

Turn off the TV detective shows and join the REAL world.

Really? That's the most likely course of events eh? I think I'm gonna need to see some evidence of that.
 
If she is THAT concerned (an abused wife is trying to leave her abusive cop husband, but in her terror she wants to buy a gun) "for her safety", a gun is FALSE security. Her best avenue is a LEGAL one.

It is much more likely that if she brings a gun into a domestic confrontation, it will end with that gun being discharged and they will carry HER out in a body bag. And if she is lucky enough to beat the odds, SHE will be facing a charge of HOMICIDE.

Turn off the TV detective shows and join the REAL world.

I wasn't aware that you could hire a Lawyer to defend you 24/7!!

Do they work in shifts, or do they just drink a lot of coffee?
 
the people who would take blood money from the NRA and vote against background checks.

Those assholes are sociopaths.

the peopel who CHEER them for doing so are sociopaths.

4 in 100 people are sociopaths.

thats alot of fucking sociopaths.

 
Wtf? Darla....who do you think you're talking to? A Conservative? If you are going to attack my character...why don't you get to know it first? I am a Democrat and for the most part, a progressive...

Don't you DARE tell me that because my opinion differs than yours on this subject, that I don't care.

I am FOR background checks....I am FOR abusive and unstable people not being allowed to own guns. I am for getting rid of legal loopholes that allow them to have them.

What I am AGAINST is not allowing women the chance to defend themselves as they see fit.

So....is this the way it is with you Darla? All or nothing? I have to tow the progressive line on every issue or be deemed a traitor to the ideology?

If that's the case....then you are no better than the batshit crazies on the Conservative side.

Darla rails agains anyone and everyone who doesn't toe the same line she does/
Darla's thinking is that men are evil and that women never lie.
If you agree with her, she will use you to support her ideas; right up to the point you disagree with her and then she'll turn on you.
Just ask Tom (Aoxomoxoa), who used to one of her outspoken defenders.
 
Yeah, because we all know a restraining order or complaint with the police is going to stop an abusive husband from coming after his wife. Well actually it must right because domestic abuse from a male to female isn't really an issue is it?

Let's try using your brains instead of your anal sphincter here. OK? Here is STY's scenario. The husband is abusive, but not just abusive, terrorizing abusive. He is also a COP.

NOW, let's say this wife buys a gun and introduces it into a domestic struggle...

WTF do you surmise will be the outcome here?

THINK man...
 
What is this loophole then? Explain it. What occurs at gun shows that only occurs there?

There IS a loophole in the gun show law that allows a seller to pose as little uncle Joe selling a gun or two, and circumvent doing background checks.

New York City sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

These so-called private sellers are supposed to be making only occasional sales. According to federal law, they cannot be "engaged in the business" of selling firearms. But that's exactly what investigators found. They found private sellers with large inventories doing a brisk business. In fact, one private seller acknowledged selling 348 guns in less than a year.


FACT: Gun sellers who claim to be “occasional sellers” are not required by current federal law to conduct background checks on their customers. Furthermore, there is no clear definition of how many guns a person can sell as an “occasional seller” – it could be dozens, or even hundreds.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) states: 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(D), (22). Those not “engaged in the business” of dealing guns are exempt from the licensure requirement.

So, closing the gun show loophole would not punish any law abiding gun owner.

And, as citizens, we can't stop a criminal from buying an illegal firearm from the trunk of another criminal in some dark alley.

But, that's where the criminal should be forced to buy a gun. In a totally illegal setting, with all the inherent dangers that come with it. BUT, our current laws sanction criminals being able to walk into a gun show, receive expert advice, discounts, then buy whatever weapon(s) they desire without a background check or having to pay black market prices or risk the dangers of buying a weapon from another criminal in a dark alley.

Here is some info on the loophole...

What is the gun show loophole?

Federal law allows people who sell guns to avoid running background checks or keeping records by calling themselves occasional sellers, and these sellers often congregate at gun shows. The loophole provides criminals with easy access to firearms without having to worry about any background checks.

  • Current law requires licensed gun dealers to conduct background checks, because that is the only way to determine whether a person is eligible to buy a gun. Licensed dealers must also keep records about the buyer so ATF can trace the gun if it is recovered at a crime scene.

  • The law does not, however, require so-called occasional sellers to do these checks – and there’s no clear definition of what qualifies as an occasional seller.[ii]
  • Many sellers at gun shows abuse that loophole by calling themselves occasional sellers. Because they concentrate at gun shows, it is easy for felons and other prohibited possessors to find someone who will sell to them without a background check.
...........*ATF concluded that “gun shows and flea markets are a major venue for illegal trafficking.”[iii]

  • Gun shows linked to the Pentagon Shooting: In March 2010, John Bedell – who was prohibited by law from possessing guns – shot two Pentagon police officers with a gun purchased from a private seller at a Las Vegas gun show.
  • Gun shows were tied to a broad range of violations, including straw purchases and the sale of kits to convert legal guns into illegal machine guns.

Solution: Require occasional sellers to run instant background checks.
 
There IS a loophole in the gun show law that allows a seller to pose as little uncle Joe selling a gun or two, and circumvent doing background checks.

New York City sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

These so-called private sellers are supposed to be making only occasional sales. According to federal law, they cannot be "engaged in the business" of selling firearms. But that's exactly what investigators found. They found private sellers with large inventories doing a brisk business. In fact, one private seller acknowledged selling 348 guns in less than a year.


FACT: Gun sellers who claim to be “occasional sellers” are not required by current federal law to conduct background checks on their customers. Furthermore, there is no clear definition of how many guns a person can sell as an “occasional seller” – it could be dozens, or even hundreds.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) states: 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(D), (22). Those not “engaged in the business” of dealing guns are exempt from the licensure requirement.

So, closing the gun show loophole would not punish any law abiding gun owner.

And, as citizens, we can't stop a criminal from buying an illegal firearm from the trunk of another criminal in some dark alley.

But, that's where the criminal should be forced to buy a gun. In a totally illegal setting, with all the inherent dangers that come with it. BUT, our current laws sanction criminals being able to walk into a gun show, receive expert advice, discounts, then buy whatever weapon(s) they desire without a background check or having to pay black market prices or risk the dangers of buying a weapon from another criminal in a dark alley.

Here is some info on the loophole...

What is the gun show loophole?

Federal law allows people who sell guns to avoid running background checks or keeping records by calling themselves occasional sellers, and these sellers often congregate at gun shows. The loophole provides criminals with easy access to firearms without having to worry about any background checks.

  • Current law requires licensed gun dealers to conduct background checks, because that is the only way to determine whether a person is eligible to buy a gun. Licensed dealers must also keep records about the buyer so ATF can trace the gun if it is recovered at a crime scene.

  • The law does not, however, require so-called occasional sellers to do these checks – and there’s no clear definition of what qualifies as an occasional seller.[ii]
  • Many sellers at gun shows abuse that loophole by calling themselves occasional sellers. Because they concentrate at gun shows, it is easy for felons and other prohibited possessors to find someone who will sell to them without a background check.
...........*ATF concluded that “gun shows and flea markets are a major venue for illegal trafficking.”[iii]

  • Gun shows linked to the Pentagon Shooting: In March 2010, John Bedell – who was prohibited by law from possessing guns – shot two Pentagon police officers with a gun purchased from a private seller at a Las Vegas gun show.
  • Gun shows were tied to a broad range of violations, including straw purchases and the sale of kits to convert legal guns into illegal machine guns.

Solution: Require occasional sellers to run instant background checks.


Except your solution is currently a felony. Non-FFLs are prohibited from using or even attempting to use the NICS system under federal law. And the last sets of proposed laws didn't change that at all.
 
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